First Whiggley is done, finally!

Questions about Making Your Own Lures

First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby setforvb » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:25 pm

So after reading every post with the word Whiggly in it and some trial and error, I finally poured my first one tonight. It's about 7.5 inches long and weighs 1.3 ounces including the eyes, brass harness and tubing. It's a little heavier than I was hoping as I was looking for something totaling an once, but nonetheless, I think it turned out pretty good. I have no idea if it will actually wiggle or even track straight but at least I have a baseline to start with. Adding pic links below showing materials and the final product. The first one, orangish color, came out OK but was I didn't quite get the tail all the way full of plastic so on the second go, I tilted the mold and poured it slowly making sure so plastic came out the vent hole I built in at the tip of both tail fins. The second one I used white dye w/ some pearl powder and then I painted it with alumadust using Larry's head gun technique. I have no idea if I have the durometer correct but I mixed it at the suggested 4:1 w/ softener. If I hold the bait straight up by the head gravity will easily double it back over itself so I'm thinking pretty soft. I used the 15mm eyes, the .453 wire and some tubing I found at a local used marine supple store. Let me know what you think or if you have any questions or suggestions and thanks to all the people on this forum who posted their experience and to Larry and Mike's how-to videos.

http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y51 ... 262444.jpg
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y51 ... 94bd21.jpg

If the weather breaks here in MD tomorrow, I might be able to give it a go and see how it looks.

Thanks
Cory
Last edited by setforvb on Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby aka anglinarcher » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:18 pm

Looks great, let us know how it swims.
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby dahlberg » Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:27 pm

Looks great, I'd say it'll swim just right with proper hook placement.
good job!
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby setforvb » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:04 pm

Larry and Anglinarcher - thanks for the feedback and I'm still anxiously awaiting an opportunity to try it out. From what I read, it sounds like the hook placement is one of the main keys to success as is the hook size. What size treble and brand should I try for this size Whiggley? 7.5inches @1.3oz. I have a Bass Pro Shop right down the street and they have hundreds of different trebles; give me an idea of where to start.

Thanks
Cory
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby dahlberg » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:42 am

try 4/0 or 5/0 to start out. And experiment with position of hook. if not forward enough and not straight it won't work. position treble so it's balanced and eye is parallel to spine.
let us know how it works.
best
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby RhettWheeler » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:23 am

That thing looks like a winner to me. As larry said, get the hook positioning down. that makes or breaks the action. I'm telling you from just straight up design, that thing should most definitely swim correctly if you rig it right.
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby setforvb » Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:21 pm

Sounds good. I'm taking my boat out of the water this weekend so hopefully l'll get a chance to take some test casts. I did pick-up some Eagle Claw 4/0 and 5/0 hooks. They are huge; would not of expected to put such a big hook on there, but I'll give it a go and let you know how I make out. Thanks again.
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby setforvb » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:10 pm

I finally got to test out my Whiggley today. It casted good and ran straight but that's about it, no wiggle in the tail. I played around with the hook position but no impact to the tail. I'm posting a video below so would appreciate some ideas or suggestions of the next modifications I need to make. If I give it some rod twitches it has some decent action but the tail is not moving like I think it should on a straight retrieve and with the rod twitches.

http://vid1278.photobucket.com/albums/y ... viioyg.mp4

Thanks
Cory
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby aka anglinarcher » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:33 pm

Can you post a picture of the lure with the hook in place? Also, can you post a picture from the top so we can see how thick it is?
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby RhettWheeler » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:15 am

How much softener did you put in? Plastic is likely too stiff. You should be able to reel it in like a spinnerbait and have it kick. I usually dilute my plastic down like 20-25% softener.
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby dahlberg » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:24 am

Yup, add some softener. also suggest you try and move the hook forward so the eye of the hook is almost touching, or actually touching the underside of the lure eye. Bury one treble in the belly in perfectly straight orientation. Try a little faster burn on the next video. sweep the rod at the same time as you're cranking at top speed.
keep trying! you're really close.
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby setforvb » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:07 pm

I mixed the softener at 4:1 so I can try cutting it back to 2.5:1 or less. The water here in the Chesapeake is pretty cold now, probably low 40's so I'd image that affects the stiffness. I don't have a picture of the hook position but it was a 4/0 eagle claw and set really far forward, maybe 1/4" separated the brass eye to the hook eye. I added some additional pics below showing thickness. Maybe the back 40% of the bait/tail is too thick? I'll have to get one of my boys to help video the next one. Hard to hold the rod, crank and video at the same time. lol. All feedback greatly appreciated.

http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y51 ... ebe4b7.jpg
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y51 ... 6cb6e6.jpg

Thanks
Cory
Last edited by setforvb on Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby Mike - Alumilite » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:30 pm

She's a beaut. The boys are right on the softener ... if you really want it to swim ... load the tail up with softener. I typically will pour the head first with a batch of straight Alumisol, then tilt it upright on its nose so it makes a straight Alumisol hardness head. As soon as it gels to the point where it will not flow anymore, I lay the mold back down and pour Alumisol heavily loaded with softener ... typically 1 cup of Alumisol + a 1/2 cup of softener ... so basically a 2:1 ratio. You can try 3:1 but I think you might need to go a little more ... maybe 2.5:1. I push mine because I like them really super soft which helps them run at slower speeds. It is very thin at these levels of softener and you almost wonder if its going to harden enough to handle but it will. When its still warm and you can barely take it out of the mold it almost feels like jelly. It will harden up more as it completely cools but will make a world of difference. I think one of the big reasons it swims so well when it is extremely soft is as you burn it, the super soft tail actually stretches a little bit and is fighting to retract as you are reeling it in ... then stop it and as it retracts it acts like a spring releasing which pushes it left and right into a natural turn. Its pretty deadly and your design is going to work beautifully. Just keep playing with loading the softener up in the tail until it is super soft.

Am working on putting the final touches on a new video where we use 3D printing to create a bigger profile Whiggley and then pour as I just explained. Will hopefully have it posted in the next week or so.

Nice work and keep us posted.
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby setforvb » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:54 am

Hi Mike and all, thanks or the tips and words of encouragement. I'm planning on pouring another one this week or weekend and I'll try doing the tail at 2:1 w/ softener. Are you talking about using the soft stuff for just the 1" tail or really the back say 60% of the bait? I'm thinking from about the 3-4" mark down to the tip of the tail I should use the extra soft stuff:

http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y51 ... ebe4b7.jpg

When I pour the tail, and let it setup for a bit them come back and pour the head (or vice-versa), will the 2 pours bond together seamlessly?
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby RhettWheeler » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:52 am

I'm thinking mike means from the head back needs to be super soft. so the first roughly inch of your bait should be harder than the remaining 6" or so.

I usually just pour the whole lure in the super soft stuff. Then again, I'm lazy.
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby setforvb » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:39 pm

I was excited to get in the workshop and try all the suggestions so I came up with the "yellow machine" below. I tilted the mold on an angle and poured the first 3 inches using straight plastic with white dye (no softener). Then, when it cooled enough to lay the mold flat, I poured the last 4.5 inches with 2:1 plastic and softener w/ flo yellow dye. Also including a second pic to show the difference between 4:1 softener (my original orangish one) vs 2:1 on the new yellow one. What a difference with the 2:1 softener, the last 4.5 inches is way more soft and stretchy. It was difficult to get out of the mold; I think I lost the tips of both tails cause the vent holes held them in past breaking pont. Now, I need to find some water to test it!

Yellow Machine:
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y51 ... 6e4ba6.jpg

Durometer compare 4:1(Orangish) vs 2:1 (Yellow White):
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y51 ... 4aaa4c.jpg

Thanks
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby Mike - Alumilite » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:46 pm

You got it Cory! That deflection you see in the comparison pic is exactly what you want. Personally, I only run the hard head just past the eyes and the rest of the body as Rhett mentioned is super soft. Would be interesting to see the difference in how they swim.

Make sure to pour the super soft body/tail as soon as the hard head will hold its shape. If you wait too long, I use a torch or heat gun and wave it in the mold right before I pour to reactivate/melt the hard head pour so it chemically bonds to the super soft body/tail pour. If it completely cools, it will not bond well to the hard head and you might end up with some failures on that seam.

Good luck and please keep us posted.
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby RhettWheeler » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:11 am

I'd be very surprised if the white/chartreuse one didn't swim, like mike said just do the head in the tough stuff and the rest in soft. The action starts right after the gill slit when you doit like that which means more motion in the ocean my friend.
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby setforvb » Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:11 pm

Sounds good. I'm going to pour another one tonight with just the first inch or so of the head done in straight plastic then 2:1 softener the rest of the 6.5". Can't wait to try them out. Hopefully this weekend.

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Cory
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby setforvb » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:35 pm

I did another pour and made my fifth Whiggley with only the front 1.5 inches of the head with straight plastic and the last 6 inches with 2:1 softener. The hook was as forward as it could get, touching the brass lure eye. It casted really well, ran straight and without a doubt finally had some wiggle but only if I really burned it and it appeared that only the last 3 or so inches of the tail was wiggling. Sorry no video. So I’m thinking now that it may be too thick from about the 2” mark to the 5” causing the wiggle not to really start until the backend instead of initiating at around the 2” mark.

http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y51 ... ebe4b7.jpg

Any other ideas, theories, suggestions or things to try? I have my Sculpey master which I could easily Dremil some thickness off and re-mold, but will hold off for a bit. I would lose my cool ninja knife scales though :cry:

Thanks
Cory
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby aka anglinarcher » Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:36 pm

OK, I was afraid this might happen. In short, I do think that you need to taper the front faster to a much thinner shape. The top to bottom, depth, is great.

Now, if you feel a need to be bored to sleep, here is the long answer.

The fact that Whiggley swims without a swim lip or swim bill or surface is the key, in my opinion. :oops:

When water flows across the front of an object, it creates vortices or swirling water along the sides. The vortices start equal on both sides, but soon micro-imperfections cause the vortices to shift and eventually alternate, causing the Whiggley, or several different swim baits, to swim. The vortices get larger as they go farther from the front of the object so if you don't get the lure flexible enough it won't start to "swim" until further back in the lure. Also, the faster you move it the larger the vortices, so moving it faster will cause more "swim". Your lure seems to respond just as suggested.

I did some research some time ago to see if I could optimize that turbulence and to be honest I am not close yet. I did how ever find some interesting information.

If I understand it correctly, the first vortices is actually really close to the front. This explains why the hook needs to be far forward and why you need to have softer plastic in the rear. If the hook is too far back it stiffens the plastic and stops the vortices from working. If the plastic is too stiff, it also stops the vortices from forming.

So, what makes the plastic too stiff to flex easily enough? Several things actually. In Engineering, we would say that the shape matters a lot, the physical properties also matter. An example would be a fishing rod. In the old days, fishing rods were solid. They found out that they did not need to have solid rods but hollow rods would work great. In fact, for less weight, a bigger diameter rod could be made that was actually stronger and stiffer. The shape, hollow verses solid, mattered. Another example is the physical materials; graphite was lighter and stiffer then fiberglass. Material matters.

For the Whggley, as discussed, the softest plastic is best, as long as it is not so soft that it fails. This is the physical property part of the equation. The shape part is that the thicker the plastic, the stiffer it is.

I suspect that if you taper the Whiggley much faster, really thinning it down at the front, and then use the 2:1 softener ratio talked about, it will work very well.

Sorry for the long write up, and I hope it makes sense.

Steve
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby Mike - Alumilite » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:57 am

Good thoughts Anglin.

If it were me, I'd do two quick tests (very basic approach to problem solving to test 2 theories ... one hardness and one thickness) ... 1st - see if you can soften it anymore beyond 2:1 and see if that helps ... 2nd - put a couple splints on the back half of your mold and tighten them with some quick clamps to squeeze the mold and make the back end a little more narrow. You can do this before you pour your Alumisol or immediately following pouring hot Alumisol in the mold before it cools and hardens. Yes it may make the height a little difference but will thin the tail down. You can always trim the height with scissors if you wish.

I believe you are really close and just need to dial this in.

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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby setforvb » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:17 pm

Steve - Thanks for taking the time to explain that. I appreciated the short and long answer and it will likely not only help me but everyone else who reads it. I was kinda bummed when after doing the 2:1 and it didn’t do what I was hoping but I'm thinking the overall shape of the bait is good, likely just thick from a little past the gill plate back. With this being my first bait, it’s all a guessing game on my part but I’m pretty determined to get it working so I appreciate everyone taking the time to comment.

Mike – That’s an interesting idea with the “squeeze play”. I’ll give that a try too before I sand down my original and re-mold; I’m interested to see what it looks like when I take it out of the mold. I’ll post up the pic. I’m not sure if I can go much less than 2:1. Getting it out of the mold now is really dicey with the tail. Will try it though.

I was thinking of maybe putting some vertical razor blade slices, maybe 3 spaced evenly on each side just to see what that would do too.

Thanks,
Cory
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby aka anglinarcher » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:38 pm

You could also take the razor blade and trim down the thickness of the bait, IF you are REALLY careful and Really good with a razor knife. :idea:
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Re: First Whiggley is done, finally!

Postby setforvb » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:37 pm

Here's some pics of the squeeze play - basically took 2 pieces of 6" long 1x3"s and clamped them together like a sandwich on either side of the mold with quick release clamps. The end product came out with a really thin taper from about the gill plate back which is exactly what I was looking for. The pics are probably hard to see the difference but in person it's quite noticeable compared to the original. Will let you know how it goes after I test it. I got a Boggs Tackle Maker from Santa, it's sweet making the harness now.

http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y51 ... 7b012d.jpg
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y51 ... 194cdc.jpg
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y51 ... 55ac6f.jpg

Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions.

Cory
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