flex 70 in my nemesis!!!!!

Questions about Making Your Own Lures

flex 70 in my nemesis!!!!!

Postby Fomen38 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:10 am

Mike- WHY IS FLEX 70 SO TEMPERAMENTAL? I have gone through every possible scenario to figure this out. I have warmed the casting resin, the mold, the insert that I'm encapsulating- and I STILL have problems with it occasionally. I opened a BRAND NEW container of it yesterday and poured up a lure. I warmed the mold, I warmed the insert, and I put a heat lamp on the mold to ensure it stayed warm so it would expedite/help the cure process. The texture of the cured product (18 hours later) wasn't "crumbly" like I had experienced before. I have learned not to "whip" it when mixing. I mix very slowly and thoroughly for about 60-90 seconds. I even fold it (cooking term used to describe a method of mixing were you gently incorporate two or three ingredients by pulling from the bottom of the container to the top, and repeating) with a stir stick from top to bottom. It was just soft- like it didn't fully cure. I know my mix ratio's of part's A and B are precise. I use a digital scale to measure out equal parts by WEIGHT. Maybe therein lies my problem. Are the A side and the B side different weights? Do I need to measure by volume and not by weight? I'm only using 27 grams of each part, so at that small of a volume if measuring by weight when I should be measuring by volume, it will definitely impact the end product. I think I may have just answered my own question, but perhaps you could chime in to solidify by suspicions. If this is the case, and the two products are different weights, but need to be measured by volume, there will always be extra resin left over in one bottle (A or B component) when you empty them by using all the product. Anyways, if you could let me know your opinion/suspicions, that would be GREAT!

Thanks,
Scott A
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Re: flex 70 in my nemesis!!!!!

Postby Mike - Alumilite » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:35 am

Hello Scott,

Everything sounds dead on. It is 1:1 by weight for best results. I know some people try by volume and have gotten it to work but it is intended and formulated to be by weight.

Let me ask you ... are you adding any dye to the Flex? If so, did you add the dye right when you were mixing OR was it added to the A side bottle prior to which would ensure you have a consistent color.

Let me also ask you what you are pouring ... 54 grams is very much adequate but wondering the size shape and dimensions?

We will get this dialed in for you and I apologize for the frustration. Even if you have to send me the mold, I'll pour it a few different ways, figure it out, send it back with new material for you ... we'll get this figured out.

Mike
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Re: flex 70 in my nemesis!!!!!

Postby Fomen38 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:23 am

Mike- thanks for the reply. I will send you a picture of the piece that I'm casting, and the insert that it's encapsulating. Then it will make more sense to you. I will send it to your email at Alumilite because at this time I don't want to publicly share the lure (since it might be an entry into next years lure contest). I will do that for you today.

Thank you,
Scott
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Re: flex 70 in my nemesis!!!!!

Postby Mike - Alumilite » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:56 pm

Sounds good. I haven't seen it come through as of yet. I will look again later tonight and in the morning and let you know if I still haven't seen it.

thx,
Mike
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Re: flex 70 in my nemesis!!!!!

Postby Fomen38 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:22 pm

My sincerest apologies Mike. I haven't had time to take pics and send them yet. I will do it this weekend. I did make another attempt this past weekend, and it came out really good. I preheated the resin by placing it in the cab of my truck for about 45 minutes in the hot sun. this brought it up to about 90 or 95 degrees. I noticed that when I use a water bath to heat up the casting resin, it changes the properties of the "B" side (the clear side). I get these little coagulated chunks that cling to the inside of the bottle. It also seems like it thickens up a bit. I have had this happen 2 x's by doing that. I'm wondering if somehow moisture is penetrating into the bottle. I don't see how because the lid is fixed on tight. I think finding a dry way to heat the resin better. if I get a successful pour again I will let you know.

Just out of curiosity, are all the flex products temperamental like the Flex 70, or is it just the Flex 70?

Thanks,
Scott
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Re: flex 70 in my nemesis!!!!!

Postby Mike - Alumilite » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:48 pm

They are all in the same family of products so I'd say they are similar in how they work but I would consider the lower durometers more tempermental than the higher. Warming it will definitely help push through any curing issues as the materials love heat. Preheating the mold will also help.

Mike
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Re: flex 70 in my nemesis!!!!!

Postby Fomen38 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:41 pm

Mike - Alumilite wrote:
> They are all in the same family of products so I'd say they are similar in
> how they work but I would consider the lower durometers more tempermental
> than the higher. Warming it will definitely help push through any curing
> issues as the materials love heat. Preheating the mold will also help.
>
> Mike

Mike- I know you're looking at the date of this post, and you're thinking, "Thanks Mr LAST YEAR!", but I had a question for you regarding the last bit of info you posted on here. If what I'm reading is right, the lower the durometer (or hardness), the more temperamental the product? If this is the case, would the Flex 80 be less temperamental than the Flex 70? Also, I have noticed that the Flex products are VERY susceptible to contamination (which I'm assuming is caused by moisture in the air). I found a good resolution for this. I started storing mine in glass mason jars where the jar and lids are labeled with the product. I vacuum save the jars shut, thus extracting any moisture laden air. I have noticed I've gotten much longer life from my casting resins by doing this. Just a helpful hint for anyone out there who might have experienced the same thing.

Scott
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Re: flex 70 in my nemesis!!!!!

Postby Mike - Alumilite » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:05 pm

No worries about the date or the question or the post. We are here to try to help.

Regarding the Flex 70 vs the Flex 80 ... they are extremely close chemically and the fact you are having more issue with one than another tells me there is probably another variable in the equation. What that might be, I'm not sure but wouldn't mind trying to figure it out with you. Starting with ... did you receive the products at the same time? was the 80 more problematic right off the bat? did you ever get good parts out of the 80 before you started having problems? did you have problems with the 70 as well or was it just the 80? when comparing them ... is there any visual difference between the two A sides and the two B sides of the two materials?

I love the glass jar trick and sealing them with vacuum. That's a pretty bullet proof way of storage. If you didn't have the ability to vacuum seal, Nitrogen or a dry air purge like Bloxygen in the heads space might help as well if you were worried about moisture in the air prior to closing.

Mike
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Re: flex 70 in my nemesis!!!!!

Postby Fomen38 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:29 pm

Mike,
I don't own the flex 80 (sorry for the confusion). I've seen Larry's instructional video for the Whopper Plopper, and I know he uses the 80 for the tail section. I've only ever used the 70, and I have found it to be EXTREMELY temperamental.

I did an experiment yesterday. I slowly heated the product to 75 degrees (by leaving it in the cab of my truck in the sunlight) and shook the hell out of it to make sure it was adequately mixed. I then left it alone for 15 minutes to let all air bubbles escape. Then I poured off equal amounts by weight (not volume), and I vacuumed out the air bubbles. I then slowly mixed them, and avoided "whipping" them together. I had no bubbles in the mixed product. I poured them into a pre-heated silicon mold that has a cavity for a small plastic lure I sculpted. The mold was pre-heated to 120 degrees. After the resin changed from translucent to cream color, and the viscosity started to change, I transferred the mold to my toaster over which maintained an average temperature of 120 degrees (which I know is accurate because I check it with a laser infrared thermometer). I did this yesterday (2/11) at approximately noon. I left it in the toaster oven all night long to cure. When I got up this morning, I removed the cured resin and pulled on it. It tore in half with minimal effort :cry:. I thought I did EVERYTHING RIGHT this time. I use a digital scale to weigh out the product. I used 15 grams of each.

I will say this..... The resin is about 10 months old. I noticed on the component that is more clear in color (I say that because I don't have them in front of me, so I'm not sure if it's the A or the B component), that I see some crystallization of the component near the spout and in the empty spaces near the spout of the container it came in. I've only moved my super plastic casting resin to the mason jars. I hadn't moved the Flex product. Is this crystallization a sign of contamination from moisture? Is this why it's not working? I'm just really bummed because I've bought the Flex 70 3 times, and I've gotten it to successfully cast about 6 or 7 times. That's out of about 25 attempts. I think I'm done with the Flex 70. I'm ready to try the Flex 80, but I have to wait to order it (no $ for it right now :cry: ). This time, AS SOON AS I GET IT, it will be transferred to mason jars, and vacuum sealed after EVERY USE! Considering the application I'm using them for, the Flex 80 may be better anyways.

Thanks in advance for your reply Mike,
Scott
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Re: flex 70 in my nemesis!!!!!

Postby Mike - Alumilite » Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:19 am

Sorry for the slow response on this and thanks for the clarification ...

Your process sounds spot on. Crystallization is moisture contamination where it comes in contact around the spout ... not necessarily a big deal. Think about a super glue bottle ... same thing ... just because it crusts up around the tip, doesn't mean all the glue inside is bad. IF the resin was bad or contaminated with moisture, it would more than likely have chunks or particles (crystals) inside the resin as you are pouring it out to measure. Yes, the Flex systems are more sensitive than the rigid faster curing resins. 10 months is a long time which doesn't help the cause due to the possibility of exposure in the head space.

15 grams and 15 grams is a pretty small pour ... theoretically ... if you are off 1 gram ... you could be off 3-5%. It is a little more touchy so the bigger amount you pour allows you to be more accurate. Still don't think this is the issue as it should cure much better than you are seeing.

Another quick question ... is there any settling in the side that you see the crystallization around the spout? If it did see some moisture over the 10 months you've had it, it may have reacted and fallen out to the bottom and possibly even hard backed to the bottle of the bottle.

One last thought about the degassing ... try degassing the A and B separately prior to mixing, then after thoroughly mixing, degas again ... it won't take as long BUT you still need to make sure it comes up, breaks (goes down) under full vacuum and should almost completely clear up (minimal bubbles if not none) prior to removing from the vacuum. Then you are ready to pour.

Please try that process and let us know. Also, please give me a call and I'll send you a kit of Flex 80 to try to make sure it works for you.

thx,
Mike
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Re: flex 70 in my nemesis!!!!!

Postby Fomen38 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:59 am

Mike-
I don'r see any crystallization in either component of the resin itself. I only see it around the spout. And regarding vacuuming the air out of the products, I can't vacuum out the air from the mixed components. I'm using a Food Saver to vacuum out the air, which works, but takes about 5 minutes of sitting in the canister to slowly pull out the air. Maybe one day I will suck it up and buy a small vacuum pump to thoroughly extract all the air bubbles out (quickly and efficiently).

I know that 15 grams seems like a small amount, but the normal casting piece I use the flex product for is 27 grams of each, and I still seem to have that problem. On Larry's instructional video of the "Whopper Plopper", it seems like he uses a fairly small amount for the tail section. I'm pretty sure that the cast piece I make uses more than he uses for the Whopper Plopper.

This is my plan- As soon as I get the product, it's going to be transferred into glass mason jars, and vacuum saved to pull out all the air. Each component will be vacuumed prior to mixing, SLOWLY stirred, and poured into a preheated silicon mold.

I have done some research with the mixing process. Please tell me if this is the way the product should be mixed: There should be equal amounts of A and B components measured out by weight (not volume). Each should be shaken vigorously prior to casting, and degassed to a bubble free consistency. One component should be poured into the other, and SLOWLY mixed thoroughly (making sure to scrape the sides and bottom of the container). Then that mixed product should be transferred to another mixing container where it is mixed again for a few seconds. Then the product is poured into the pre-heated mold. I preheat my mold to about 100 degrees. It should be left alone for 24 hours to fully cure.

I will call today Mike. You're awesome!
Scott
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Re: flex 70 in my nemesis!!!!!

Postby Mike - Alumilite » Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:56 pm

Good plan Scott,

You mentioned a process called "double cupping" ... double cupping is used to reduce the chance of unmixed material being poured into your mold. I personally never recommend it. I recommend stirring well, scraping the sides and the bottom of your cup and your stir stick, then mixing that back in again. If you mix thoroughly, there is no need to waste a cup and the material that is left in your first cup ... its simply wasteful. IF you were seeing swirls at the end of your cast that didn't cure but everywhere else cured beautifully, I'd say you are not scraping the sides when mixing because the last bit that you pour that is coming off the side wall of the cup which was never mixed. It then lays on the top of your pour which doesn't cure and may remain tacky or even gooey.

Other possibilities other than age/moisture are too much dye which can effect the cure or simply too much air agitated in when mixed. Lets try the new kit with your same process and see how that works. I'm anticipating it will work well.

Mike
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Re: flex 70 in my nemesis!!!!!

Postby Fomen38 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:32 am

Mike- I got the product you sent me about 3 days ago. I just wanted to thank you for sending it. The first thing I did is transfer the resin into individual mason jars, and I vacuum sealed the air out of them. I have decided to make my own vacuum chamber for degassing. You can find ANYTHING online, and I found several videos of guys making vacuum chambers from a 2.5 cfm vacuum pump from Harbor Freight, along with a vacuum gauge and some elementary plumbing pieces. I work right next to Ridout Plastic in San Diego, so I will take a trip over there today to get a 12" x 12" x .5" piece of clear acrylic for the clear lid of the vacuum chamber. I'm thinking there's MUCH validity to your advice regarding "degassing" the product before pouring, and getting a successful end result. I have wasted a LOT of product, and I figured with the amount I've waster, I could have bought the components to make the vacuum chamber by now. I will update you with the results. Thanks again Mike. You are AWESOME!

Scott
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