Wire Through Crankbait w/ bill Design

[rippinlips]

I have purchased the soft bait and hard bait kit, and what I really want to make is smaller crankbait (2.5-3 in) with a deep diving bill for trolling up Stripers and Walleye at Lake Powell here in Utah. I have already purchased some balsa wood blanks and crankbait bills (with split rings on the bills) to design a mold. My question is, does anybody have any good ideas on how to attach the bill to the wire so that the whole bait is essentially a wire through design. My first idea was to drill a small hole in the back of the bill and thread the wire through and back on itself. I would then bend the rest of the wire for the hook holds, etc like Larry does in his Workshop DVD. Also, is it best to build the mold to include the bill or is it better to nuild the mold around the balsa wood with a slot cut for the bill and then add it after. It seems that for what I want to do with a wire through design, it would be better to design a mold to include the bill in it. If anybody has experience adding bills to your homemade plastics or could direct me to a resource that does, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[dahlberg]

Hi R
The type of lure you're attempting is the most demanding in terms of all elements related to lures! Deep diving lures are very much like kites. Location of the bridle, length of tail, etc control rate of climb and stability.
Changing one control surface or connection point makes a big difference in everything, and every control surface or connection point can be changed by micro degrees or distances and they can be changed singly or in any combination with another.
In order for a lure to dive deep and be stable but still wiggle somehow requires a very high degree of symmetry which call for a higher degree of modeling skill than many other lure families.
Believe me, I do not want to discourage you, but I don't want you to be discouraged either!
Depending on which design you choose, I suggest using tunable brass wire for your hook hangers like all the old original Big O lures used.
Another option is to use a metal lip and attachment like the old bombers and hellbenders had for tuning.
In terms of lips, I like to cast them into the mold after I've got my lure figured out. While making protos you want to make a blank that you can cut different angles and lip placements until you get it right.

Studying the planing surfaces employed in the old Spoonplug is another worthwhile exercise.
good luck! Please keep us abreast of your progress.
L

[rippinlips]

Will do, thanks for the tips Larry. So you would recommend making a mold that replicates the balsa wood crankbait body to start with, and then cut the slots for the bills into those prototypes until I can get the depth and wobble figured out? What is the best way to test the lure action at depth? Does the wobble change the deeper it goes? I live on a small pond, but the water clarity is probably only 5 feet or so.

[Trimmer308]

Boy one thing you can say about Larry he does give good advice.. I have completed and few bait models that are deep diving... some bass lures some Musky lures using the soft wire will save you a lot of problems I thought when I first seen Larry using this soft wire they would be hard to keep in tune but that really hasn't been the case they seem do do very well and are quick to tune...

I develop the body first... shape, size and hook placement, once I work out the bill size angle if any, deep diving lures usually have pretty straight bills.. anyway once thats worked up and I have the finished bait in wood and I don't use Balsa for deep lures I tend to use cedar or bass wood, I cast the whole lure using a two piece mold including the bill... if I'm going to cast the bill with the body not using any kind of pre-made bill I cast the bait from the bill... what I mean is I have the fill point made in my mold so that I fill the bill cavity first this pervents air from getting trapped in the bill area...I have a second pour spout made into the body area so I can see when the mold is full and if I'm using the super plastic I may have to finish filling the body cavity using the second hole if the plastic starts to thicken..the super plastic has a shorter window than the Alum-white
some of the baits I use a pre-made lexan lip in these baits I still made the mold using the bill I just insert the bill before casting... some I drill for the harness wire and some I don't depends on the size of bait and how the lexan lip is made some are routed so the are achored very good without any other attachment...
however, you will find that having your wire harness attach to something will help support it while you are casting the bait.

I'm still working out a way to reproduce wire harnesses I find that to be the slowest part of casting the bait... I've built a dozen bending boards but none have been the real answer I'm looking for.

Larry, FYI, I an suppose to do a TV spot this month on building hard plastic baits, I did an article on it in my outdoor column for the newspaper and the Local TV station has ask me to do a 3minute spot on a local outdoor program... should send you a little business... Then Soc Clay and I are going to Dale Hollow together the 5-6 April to Test some lures.. so we might get an article in Cablas Outdoor Journal thats who Soc is writing for.

Trimmer

[rippinlips]

Thanks Trimmer. I plan on using the balsa wood just to create a mold. Won't actually be fishing deep with the balsa. The lips I plan on using are pre-fabricated Lexan and have a ring already attached. I was checking out some of the cranks you are making. Really cool stuff. My question for you is, do you see the same performance (fish attracting ability) with a cast bill that is painted? I like the clear, pre-fabricated lexan because i feel like the focus is more on the body of the bait and not the bill itself. I though about making a mold that includes the bill so it is essentially a one piece bait. Do you run the wire harnass all the way into the bill to create different attachment points or do you generally just run the tie in right out of the nose, above the bill?

[rocko]

Lots of good advice, and I will add a few more ideas from my experiences. Nail down your prototype with balsa, and make sure it is very symmetrical. As Larry notes, lip angles and attachment point is a whole topic on its own. I used to make my own metal lips with a sheet of brass, and that worked fine. A thin metal lip is durable and better yet, tune able! I made my mold with lip, so when cast, the lip is always in the right spot. I drill a few wholes in the metal, near the nose of the bait. When poured width alumilite, it will fill through those holes and hold that metal lip solid. I now use stainless lips that have been stamped for me and they are holding up great. The lip does extend into the bait about three-quarters of an inch on a four inch long bait. I am also slush molding them, using an alumilite shell and a 610 foam core, so the bait is very buoyant. The alumilite in the nose, and the bait, still holds up for my buddies redfish expeditions in Venice, so I know the design is solid as it needs to be. Just got up from the shop after molding a few! Watch Larry's whopper plopper videos on the molding process.

Rocko

[dahlberg]

rocko, sounds like you've got it! The metal lip really does open up possibilities. It's been used extensively in the musky venue for many years, but I've never seen one used on a commercially produced lure.
Regarding lips, a tip for new lippers using clear poly: If you gently heat the lip with a heat gun it can be easily bent. Using the very longest lips in the assortment we offer on makelure, you can actually bend it in a double 90 degree angle like the lip on a Pikie Minnow or Magnum Shad rap.
Give the new Alumifoam a shot. You will really like it.
Would you mind sharing with other forum members how you went about about getting the lips stamped?
thnks for the post
best
L

[jerkbait]

Joe Bucher's "Crankbait secrects" (I believe it's something like this) offers good advice on how lure shape, bill shape/size/location, lure buonancy etc all affect dive rates and max depth, before designing your own I might suggest giving this a read. I am currently trying to design pretty much a crank opposite of your design being a half hard platic half soft plastic crank with minimal depth.

Edit: Is there any plan to add metal lips to the products section of the makelure.com? I love the products but the metal lips are easier to tune before making the final mold.

[rocko]

All,
I worked with Dale, at Metal Works Stamping Corporation. He stamps quite a few different lip designs. The one that matched my homemade brass lips was one that he typically stamps in Lexan, but he was able to stamp them in stainless if I ordered enough to cover his extra effort to rig it up. Great guy to work with, and I recommend checking out his site to see what else he has to offer.

http://www.metalworksstamping.com/

I will try and take some photos this weekend and post on photobucket to hopefully help show this better.

Rocko

[Trimmer308]

rip,
I don't try to make my lures adjustible, the one piece cast baits have the tie eye fixed but tuneable... as far as which one catches the most fish.. I honestly see no difference I make the clear Lexan lips for fishermen... I try to make all my lures and most designs are very old and made from wood for a long time catch fish but selling lures is as much for fishermen as it is for the fish... the clear bill looks a little more professional... Ive taken a little advice from people on this site and have changed my rattle design so I'm getting a little more volume.

another thing I do on the one piece baits...is I paint the lips metallic silver or gold and many time white pearl this gives off a lot of flash in stained water. While I don't sell as many of them I personally like them... many of my converted lures will see their first season this year... so I'm excited to see how far I can go with this new approch to making lures.
Trimmer

[Watchhiller]

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[rocko]

Hope this link works. Here is a photo of one of my cranks with the stainless lip. Above the crank is the lip with the holes punched. I add a small piece of brass wire in the holes. I guess just so there is a little something else for the foam and alumilite to grab onto and hold it in place. The stainless doesn't like to be drilled easily. I found a metal punch on Amazon that puts the holes in the lips quicker.

http://s1252.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... sort=3&o=4

Rocko

[Watchhiller]

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