another buoyancy question

[PrfectFromNowOn]

I'm attempting to copy a wood bait and am trying to find the right superplastic to microballons volume ratio so that it floats like a typical wood bait. First attempt was 2:1 and it sinks like a rock so obviously much higher. Anybody able to give me a rough guess? 1:1? Higher or lower?

[Mike - Alumilite]

anglinarcher posted a graph in the lure photos of www.makelure.com for us all to use as a comparison of the amount of microballoons used in Alumilite White to the density of popular woods. Please check it out at http://makelure.com/Lures.cfm

It also lists the 610 Foam and 320 Foam at the bottom of the graph which is closer to the density of balsa. Says it was posted by Donald H.

I'm sure it will help dial you in as it has helped many of us.

Thanks again anglin for the resource!
Mike

[aka anglinarcher]

Prfect,

Depending on the wood you/they were using, it may be necessary to pour a shell with Alumilite White and then fill with 610 foam. If you don't mind a 20 minute amature video, check the two links out below to get an idea of what I do. This concept works when copying wood or hollow plastic lures.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_L34Hif ... tube_gdata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t529b1xu ... tube_gdata

If it is balsa that the lure is made of, then just molding directly with 610 Foam will work, but you will need to wait about 36 hours before the lure is full strength. I find that 610 is just as or even stronger then Balsa after that time. 610 Foam also forms a good skin in the mold, so only the trimmed parts need to be sealed before painting.

Good luck and don't worry, we are all here to help you. Check out Larry Dahlberg's DVD on making lures with a shell as well.

[Trimmer308]

I too am working on converting a wood topwater bait to Plastic...I am only now starting to work on this project so I trying to see what others have done so I don't have to reinvent every step of the project... it appears from what I've read that microbloons alone are not going to make this puppy float on the top of the water... if I wrong about this please correct me..

I have been making a topwater propped bait for many years, I have discovered the perfect size to be a cross over bait.. (Bass and Musky) while I can reproduce it in wood it takes longer than I care to do.. to sell them...so I have embarked on the task of trying to make them from plastic..

The bait is 6 3/4 inches long and about the size around as a zera spook maybe a touch larger... I'm thinking about casting the bait in Alumlite White then cutting the bait in half, hollowing the bait out with a drimel tool, making a pour hole, drilling the head and tail for lineup pins and using the bait as a mold to pour a foam core setting it on a single through wire then setting the bait in the hard plastic silicon mold to pour the hard plastic outer shell just wondering if anyone has already gone down this path and have any advice or pit falls I need to address.

Thank you
Trimmer

[dahlberg]

HiT
You have several options. 1) With a heavy enough mix, it is quite possible the microballoons mixed with super plastic will work. I've made several whopper ploppers that way and they float fine. You just need a really big pour hole.
2) do a slush mold to create a class A urethane finish (it's on the lure making dvd and I believe the Alumilite site), then foam the inside.
3) We've just developed a new super tough expanding foam that's about the same buoyancy as cedar. It's called Alumifoam.
My suggestion is to make your mold with thru wire harness. Pour a thin belly with straight super plastic and the rest with Alumifoam.
Avoiding all the drilling and filling you describe is the reason we use molds!!
good luck
L

[Watchhiller]

........................................

[Trimmer308]

Thanks for the replys,
I just made an order from the Alimulite site.. so I can play with the Microblooms and see what I can come up with. the video I seen using the slush method looked like one end of the hard body was open making it easy to add the foam... this bait will have props on both ends so I'm not sure just how to go about making a slush mold that could work for me... but I will continue to explore all options at this point.

over the years I have made this bait out of a lot of different woods, I found cedar, balsa and bass wood all to be a little to buoyant, the bait has over sized props and I seem to get the best results made from yellow pine the bait rides a little lower in the water with less roll-over (with the big props) it also makes it heavy enough to throw a very long cast... all traits I felt should make a good choice for converting it to plastic..

I think I will try a microbloons options first if that doesn't result in the action I need, all options will be on the table... my task will be to try to make a lure that can run the same as its wood counterpart.

I have about 4 crankbaits that I want to also explore the plastic option, all proven in wood form but very slow to produce by hand... I am very excited to learn more about using hard plastic. I have a lot to learn but thats half the fun.
Thanks again for the help

Trimmer

[dahlberg]

try at least 5% and up to ten percent by weight of balloons. that's weight, not volume.
best
L

[aka anglinarcher]

Trimmer308, welcome to the fun, and challange, of developing a mix ratio.

I looked up the densities of several woods and found Yellow Pine to be about .42.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wood- ... -d_40.html

Western Red Cedar is showing at only .38, but Cedar of Lebanon is .58. These two woods are only two of the many Cedar species that I know of. Do you know what Cedar species you have been testing? Juniper is also often called Cedar, and it has a density of .55. Aromatic Cedar has a density of .44, and that is just a start.

http://www.ehow.com/list_6459566_types-cedar-wood.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedar_wood

Alaskan Yellow Cedar is one of the "Cedar" species often provided in Hobby Shops. The Hobby Shop I got my sample from was Hobby Lobby. It is quite a bit densier then Red Cedar, with a density of .47. That is the density of the Alumifoam, .47 g/cc. Note also, that Alaskan Yellow Cedar is not actually a cedar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupressus_nootkatensis

It should be noted that wood is very inconsistentent in density while the foam is very consistent.

Note also that when Larry and Mike quote my graph, the Cedar quoted is the Alaskan Yellow Cedar, not the much lighter western red or the heavier Lebanon Cedar.

With Yellow Pine at .42, actually less dense then Alumifoam at .47, the Alumifoam might indeed be the perfect choice for you.

Good luck, the above group will not lead you astray.

[Watchhiller]

............................

[Trimmer308]

Hi again,
I want to thank all the people that posted replies. Your input is very welcome. I am at the stage now of making prototypes. I have ordered a gal. of molding rubber, so I can do some real testing, since I have decided to get back into lure making I have got out all my old molds, and I think I’m going to try to reproduce some of my plastic injections molds since they are pretty old. I found some old RTV rubber that was 10 years old and un-used... six months right..lol any way I tried one of the two I had... The silicone looked fine but the activator that was once pink was now as clear as mt. spring water… that try is still tacky after three days... so I can safely say 10-year-old activator is worthless… I will post some pictures as I go along…

One other noteworthy... I don’t know if any of you will be going to Cincinnati Boat and Sports Show but Chip Hart (owner of Hart production) has asked me to cover the boat and sport show, so I will be going Saturday if any of you plan to attend let me know maybe we can hook up… my friend Toney Grant will be working the show…

Thanks again for all your help
Trimmer

[dahlberg]

SAy hello to Chip for me!
best
LD

[Trimmer308]

Sure will Larry, Chip has been a friend for a lot of years now, Soc Clay and I have went to a lot of Chip's productions, Soc lives pretty close to me and has been my mentor for a lot of years, at one time Soc was an officer for the OWO, Ohio writers group, he's a whale of a nice guy. BTW we are still catching muskie on Cave Run, Crash Mullins just texted me a picture of 50 + fish he caught a week ago...pretty good fish for our little lake

Trimmer

[Mike - Alumilite]

Trimmer, give me a call about your old rubber. Perhaps, I can get you some new catalyst that you can use with your old and still liquid base. No promises but worth a shot.

Mike
800 447-9344

[Trimmer308]

Thanks Mike,
I only have one package of rubber left from the old stuff.. 10oz which would require one ounce of catalyst...not sure about my old soft plastic supplies at one time I was going through about a gallon every three weeks I seen I have a full quart of hardner, softner and about half gallon of the milk... hey... thats what happens when to get so busy you just lay stuff down... I tested my first small crankbaits this past Sunday... I made four protypes, three of the four ran perfact with only a little tuning.. one was hopeless and its back to the drawing board for that one...I also got my new Iwata airbrush today, my old one had some issues I couldn't get cured, I use a top feed dual action for detail and bottom feed for base coats... my base coat gun seem to be working fine... dusting off a lot stuff I didn't realized just how much stuff I had stored.

Thanks Again

Trimmer

[Mike - Alumilite]

3 out of 4 isn't bad for just getting back into it and all prototypes! Nice work. Post some pics when you have a chance. Would love to see them. You can post them on MakeLure's Gallery if you want.

Mike