Larry love the show but it is cruel.....too me

[DonMiller]

Versus running your programs ending with only six hours left to get some rest before I have to fire the rig up for the lake, is nothing but down right cruel, and the lack of sleep is definitely effecting the clarity of my fishing decisions. Despite this each program is interesting and unless the boat needs a fixing I get to watch it.

That all said the Cowgirl mention last week during your lure history program got me started on a Muskie tackle re-education orgy wanting to know more about the current state of Muskie fishing. I have a special technique which I think should also be applicable off shore, and for inner coastal waters using Muskie size plugs and may be DoubleCow Girl style baits.

I fish for Red Fish (Drum) in State stocked warm water lake using lures so large they have been used as Muskie plugs. These fish are usually larger than the Red Fish found in inner coastal waters for all but the Bull run season. We tied the fresh water 42" length Catch and Release record three weekends ago, and held it briefly 16 months ago.

Since the water clarity is no better than 2 feet I believe these Reds are locating prey using the Lateral Line senses, so DCGs should work. We have red fish hitting 7" to 12" length plugs that are only 2X to 3X the size of the plug. We minimally need 2X to 3X strength gear to deal with them. This time of year the bigger fish are down 15' to 35' so we down rig to get baits to them. I would like to get some Large DoubleCow Girl into this pay zone. However I see the DCG running high in the water column, so for this season I think I will have to use my Downrigger setup. We use Walker stackers to get four plugs into the pay zone. We pinch 30# Ande Mono adjusting the release clips almost out to the maximum tension trolling the largest 7" Bomber Long A shallow divers. We have very little additional tension adjustment left to handle a significant drag increase from a DCG style.

I want to run the largest blades I can dare troll or crank in other seasons. Before I stock up for trolling, I need to find somebody who can tell or estimate for me the torque the various size blades will pull back. I just measured my current the release tension strength. Mono line releases at 3 to 4.5# of pull. 100# Braid needed half that pull.

Is 3 to 4.5# torque enough tension to troll dual #13 or #10 blades?

Larry I am pretty sure you have fished for both Muskie and Red fish. For equal weight or lengths which do you feel fights harder and last the longest in the fight?

But versus running Friday night programs is still down right cruel. ;<)

[dahlberg]

Hi d
Man, I love the way your mind works. No voodoo!
It depends on how fast you're going. Several of my friends are downrigging dcgs in exactly the same fashion as you describe and doing really well on post spawn muskies over open water trolling the baits appx 20' below the surface.
All I can say is you'd have to try them and see. They work well at slow speeds which should be a good thing for dirty water reds.
I'd start out with the # 10 blades, and mess with blade sizes to see which best serves you purpose.
Regarding the fight, I'd say reds have a little more stamina, but the musky bite is more exciting and muskies often jump with gives them double points in my book compared to reds.
As a general rule, all saltwater species have more gas than freshwater species.
Muskies are much harder to convince than reds and unfortunately don't hunt in massive schools and are more likely to be solitary critters than reds so the challenge of locating them is much greater as well.
Where are you fishing them in an inland lake?
best,
L

[DonMiller]

Cruel as Friday TV can be, there I sat typing questions 4 hours from the fishing trip alarm time. And I came home to find you were kind enough to answer my question as I drove to the lake (brief fishing report : caught 7, largest was 37" long, weighed 18#. A terrible 80F Texas winter day over 74F water , but somebody had to endure it. I am still amazed at what size plugs these reds will attack, 13" DCGs would be no challenge.)

Thanks for your reply. To answer your question I am fishing a Texas inland power plant cooling lake. Heat released by the continuously loaded power stations makes it possible for these 2,000 to 3,600 acre lakes to produce gizzard and thread fin shad year round, which is more than ample forage for the Reds. Red Drum 2" Fingerling produced by Texas Parks and Wildlfe Department (TPWD) are stocked in these four lakes at about 200 fingerling per acre. The year round shad forage these heated lakes produce is sufficient to grow power plant lake warmed Reds at 1" to 1.5" per month up to the mid 20s" of length.

Learning how to best pattern and produce these red fish is a technology challenge since they are living in an environment that is not the same as their natural enviroment. We see no shallow water schooling or tailing like patterns, whatsoever. This lake environment and forage is more like their latter life stage deep waters than their young coastal shallow life stage. I would think any new lure we apply and methods we develp would be more applicable for the Gulf and Atlantic off shore and deeper coastal water way environments. That should give the various DCG like producers incentive to develop a whole new market for their products.

Could you tell me what speed are your friends are trolling their 10# blades and what type of release are they using? Is there any way you could get them in touch with me, please give them my email or get me a phone number so I can try and pick their brains for their method?

FYI Texas is the government type leader in both Red Fish Aqua farming for food and Texas Park and Wild Life raising fingerlings for release in coastal water and inland lakes. In 2008 the TPWD stocking program produced and released 23.3 million Red Drum 2" fingerling, and 28.6 million in 2007. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fi ... &Submit=Go

The Texas CCA was responsible for the initial Reds artificially motivated spawning and raising research for these fingerling. The CCA financially contributed to the building of some of the three hatcheries still operating today. Together with new laws preventing the continued decimation of natural reds by commercial fishermen our Gulf coast Reds have made an impressive recovery. The restaurant demand for Red Fish meat is now supplied by Aqua Culture farms on the Texas coast. In addition to an extensive fresh water fish stocking program, Texas Parks and Wildlife is now also spawning and stocking Spotted Seatrout and Striped Bass. Texas is contemplating doing the same for flounders.

Honestly, I had no purpose for my prior post for this topic but a CCA/Texas actions and results Versus historical expose' program finishing with you catching a fish spawned and stocked coastal Red and SeaTrout would be one heck of a success story celebrating mankind's reversal of a specie's decline. If this story interests you, I believe I could locate and put you in touch with the CCA and TPWD people who could put the real story meat on these bones of a story. I expect both organizations would pull out all the stops trying to help you produce a great program.

You might be able to tell I am very thankful for the Red Drums they stock in my lake, but do not want to help do a TV program that would lead a horde of fisherman to my hidden jewel. However it is my opinion ending such a Versus expose' program with you catching coastal Texas hatchery produced reds, sea trout and/or inland Stripers would be one great program.

[dahlberg]

Hi D
Wow! That's absolutely amazing!!!!
It would make a great show, and I am definitely interested.
I'm emailing your post to Brad Hoppe at cowgirl headquaters who's got the drill down on exactly what you're asking.
I'm sure he'll get you tuned right in.
Thanks for the post.
best,
L

[DonMiller]

Larry,

I realize this the spring rush for Brad in your northern part of the world and mine is such a small concern for him, but I have not heard from him yet. I am somewhat holding off buying waiting to hear what he recommends for spoon sizes based upon his trolling experiences.

I fished last Friday and until about 3 PM Saturday. Caught five Friday, eight Saturday. Friday I have witnesses that I broke the Texas State Red Fish Catch and Release and lake record with a 43.25" and [b]36# 10oz[/b] brute. I will make application this week. the fish came within a few ounces of breaking the rod and reel record as well. I do not know if these pictures will post here. If not the clipping text from "HTTP: to .Jpg" and pasting this on a new address bar will get you to the flicker pages that hosts them.
[img:left]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/3441117738_9412f9c2d2.jpg[/img]....
[img:right]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3659/3440254331_9313cb6113.jpg[/img]
[img:center]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3404/3440198685_0893c5709d.jpg[/img]
[img:right]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3560/3440174373_1e866210f6.jpg[/img]

For the first time while trolling after locating an active and concentrated school that was partly heamed in with a bank on one side, I doubled back and caught mine casting a [url=http://www.barlowstackle.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=6&Product_ID=1148&CATID=60]#032 Chartreuse Minnow colored Barlow's Chatter Shad [/url] sinking Rattler (a Rattle Trap like bait). I would recommend heavying up to 3X or 2X split rings and hooks from Barlow's pre-built offer of this plug, especially considering the lake held or holds a bigger monster Red Fish.

Find'm, Hook'm, Reel'm, Measure'm, Weigh'm, Smile with'm, Release'm and Thank Him
Don Miller