Fly rod and reel

Questions about Saltwater Fishing

Fly rod and reel

Postby beachlessbeachbum » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:59 pm

Hello again,
What line weight would you recommend for fly fishing from the beach? I might have the chance to do this but I really don't know what would be a good line weight. I will be moving to California so I will have the beach nearby.
I haven't been able to find any fishing reports over there so if somebody has some fishing info I would appreciate if you can share it with me.
Thanks a lot for your response.
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby Henry Schmidt » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:34 pm

I'd imagine it depends on what species your after and the environment. I cant find the web address anymore(google stripping basket, you might find it) but there is a site about sea perch and spotted bass fishing with a flyrod. They used 6wt. outfits and small mole crab type flies. Similar to Snook fishing the summer spawn here on the Florida gulf coast, the fish hugged the trough against the shoreline and were extremely sciddish. I imagine northern Ca. would be a different story, dont they have Cod and similar fish up there?
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby beachlessbeachbum » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:29 pm

Hello Henry,
I went to Cabela's today and they also recommended either a 6 or a 7wt for shore fishing. The guys weren't sure either what kind of fish I would be dealing with there but that gives me an idea of what I should use. My problem is that not only I don't know the area but I have no saltwater fishing experience at all.
Thanks, I appreciate all the help I can get.
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby dahlberg » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:19 am

Hi BBB
Who ever gave you the info about a 6 or 7 weight oughta be flogged with same.
7 is the absolute lightest, and IMO that only if you are a world class caster.
Between 8-10 is what you want.
Fishing in surf with a flyrod is not my idea of fun.
best,
L
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby Henry Schmidt » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:23 am

An article in Fly Fishing in Saltwaters a few months back showed early morning fishing for sea perch on the public beaches in L.A. It was a light line deal. I know the snook fishing on our beaches can be too. But the gulfcoast doesnt have what the rest of the world would call surf either. I have a blast when the snook are spawning on the beach using a Calcutta 50, 4lb test and little white yo-zuri crankbaits.
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby dahlberg » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:25 am

Hi H
I agree, the Calcutta 50 and light line with conventional equipment would be great. However,the question relates to fly casting.
If the wind starts to come up and everything isn't smiling on you it can be miserable. It's much easier to cast an eight weight with a long leader if spooking fish etc. is an issue than it is to fight mother nature with a line too small to cut the wind or overcome the wind resistance of the fly, not to mention shooting line.
Plus, you can always cast a wider range of flies sizes and weights with an eight weight than you can with a six. Same applies if you want to use different shooting heads. IMO A 12 oz blue gill puts up a good fight on an eight weight.
It's not an issue of landing the fish, which is still great fun on an eight weight, it's a matter of enjoying the process and not fighting your equipment and tearing your underwear in an attempt to get an extra twenty feet on your cast!
I appreciate everyone's thoughts, experience and opinions and want to hear them.
How ever, I've been tossing flies for 53 years, guided flyfishermen for 23 of those years and would imagine I've caught as many different species in as many different environments as anyone I know. I stand firm in my suggestions.
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby beachlessbeachbum » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:16 am

Thanks Larry,
It makes sense, wind and distance. It is very frustrating trying to cast with a light line, more than once I have packed and left my favorite fishing pond because of wind...
Thanks again for your help and suggestions, this help me a lot to get an idea since, like I said, I have no salt water fishing experience.
Best Regards.
Martin
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby dahlberg » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Hi BBB
Be sure to get a local tide chart when you arrive. In salt, especially from the beach it will dictate the timing of everything. Generally, 3/4 incoming thru 1/4 outgoing will be your best shot.
Scout the options during dead low tide to see where the little buckets and basins are. Also look for steep breaks against the sand, even if they're only a couple feet deep, adjacent to flatter areas. These are places you are most likely to make contact when the tide is higher.
Also, a mistake lots of surf guys make is to aim all their casts out at a 90 degree angle from the beach. In most instances, especially when it's prime time, you will catch more fish casting more parallel than perpendicular.
good luck,
L
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby beachlessbeachbum » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:51 pm

Great, thanks for the pointers. This takes me to another question...what rod length do you think I should get for shore fishing?
Thanks
Martin
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby dahlberg » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:00 am

hey bbb

I'd say 9-10' depending on what else you might fish for with it after the beach. try a few lengths and see which best suits you.

best,
L
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby Grandpa21 » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:18 pm

BBB,

Larry almost wrote my thoughts as I was thinking them. I agree with the finding the drop-offs, changes in depth such as bars and sloughs. A good practice if you are around the area for a while is to drive or walk down the beach at low tide and get an idea where these places are before the tide rolls in and fish them accordingly. I've found luck and less frustration from the waves by fishing the backside of points, where they usually have good drop offs and calmer water. As Larry mentioned casting perpendicular to the beach is not always the most productive, switch it up and try different angles to cover the most water possible. I've found flies that imitate sand crabs/creatures work well in the surf because this is what many of the fish feeding there are relying on the surf to stir up.

As far as tackle goes I agree that going a bit heavier in the surf always outweighs the "enjoyment" of fighting a fish on lighter tackle because all the surf fishing I have done there is never a lack of wind. I typically prefer a fast action 9wt, but drop to 8 or go up accordingly. TFO TiCrX is a good inexpensive faster action rod. You typically want to be using some type of shooting head, shooting taper, or weight forward line therefore having a heavier and IMO faster action rod allows you to load the rod properly and really shoot out some line and get it to where you want it. Another tip, try to use the wind to your advantage. In a headwind try and keep you casts lower to the water but with tight loops. With a shooting head a short roll cast before your first back cast helps bring the line to the surface. Try facing away from the beach and using your backcast as a final cast! No method that works is WRONG! Learning to Haul properly is a must, and a stripping basket to control your extra line makes things much less frustrating! Fly casting in the surf is technical and all about timing, relaxing and going through the motions and although frustrating at times it can be very rewarding as well. Hope this helps.

Good Luck.

p.s. as far as reels in the surf it's hard to beat a sealed drag for a fly reel that is in regular contact to the water/salt/sand.
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby beachlessbeachbum » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:36 am

Hello Grandpa21 and thanks for the pointers. I was able to get a Pflueger Trion combo before I moved to CA. I wanted an 8wt but the price on this 10wt was so good that I didn't think twice. Maybe when I get the hang of it I will get an 8wt. I found some great fly recipes for Southern California now I just have one question. What type of leaders and what size should I use (tie) for saltwater fishing? The fly patterns I tied are around 4, 6 and 2. I'm not sure if I need a wire for this application.
Thanks again.
Martin
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby dahlberg » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:25 am

HI M
Only time you need a wire is when you start getting bit off!
For flies that size I'd suggest 40# hard mono shock leader. 6-9' "leader, what ever strength you want. Don't listen to nonsense about leader "kicking" the fly over. The momemtum of the fly is what turns the leader over. Butt Leader dia/stiffness where it connects to fly line should be of similar flexibility as not to create hinge at that point.
good luck!
L
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby beachlessbeachbum » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:34 pm

Shock leader...That's a new term I hadn't heard before. I tie my own leaders but I'm not sure if the shock leader is tied before the tippet. I searched the web but couldn't find much helpful info abut it.
Sorry to be such a pain but I want to make sure I fish with the right stuff.
Thanks a lot!
Martin
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby JayS52 » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:21 pm

[quote="beachlessbeachbum"]Shock leader...That's a new term I hadn't heard before. I tie my own leaders but I'm not sure if the shock leader is tied before the tippet. I searched the web but couldn't find much helpful info abut it.
Sorry to be such a pain but I want to make sure I fish with the right stuff.
Thanks a lot!
Martin[/quote]

Hey Triple B,

A shock leader is a concept if I recall correctly originally designed by the early pioneers of SWFF like Apte, Tabory and Curcione. Essentially, it is a heavy tippet designed to absorb the tension created by the voilent headshakes saltwater gamefish so often exhibit. While this was certainly a great concept to heighten the breaking strength on an IGFA leader, the real value of the shock isn't what the design was. Many species of saltwater gamefish have either pronounced penetrating teeth or thousands of small "gripping" teeth, much like you would see on a Bass. Some of these species, specifically Snook, Tarpon, Ladyfish and to a minimal extent, Striped Bass have highly abrasive mouths. If you don't have this heavier leader in front of your fly, the fish can wear through your connection and ultimately bust you off. It is also valuable to prevent cutoffs from smaller mackerel species and bluefish under 5lbs or so. If you are in a more turbid environment, a hard mason style mono would provide a cheap and effective solution. If you are in cleaner water and sink rate is a factor, high quality hard flourocarbon such as seaguar is in order.
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby beachlessbeachbum » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:55 am

Hello Jays52 and thanks for the explanation. I will be fishing the Santa Monica or Malibu beaches, not quite sure what I need over there.
What I gather from what you guys have been kindly explaining is that I just tie a 40pt piece of leader in front of a regular leader, right? Not sure why I have been having a hard time understanding the physics of the shock leader but I promise I won't bug you guys with this for long.
Thanks again.
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby JayS52 » Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:12 am

Yep exactly. A shock leader is just a heavier piece of leader between your main leader and your fly. For example: I'm tying a saltwater leader, and I want to use 40lb shock. I would run 8' of straight 20lb flouro and either triple surgeons, uni/uni, or slim beauty to get the lines together. After that, six to twelve inches of 40lb, with the 40 going to the fly. So, from the flyline loop, straight 20, knot, 40lb, fly.
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby beachlessbeachbum » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:47 pm

Wow, so you're saying that I won't have to tie a regular leader like the ones for fresh water. I can use a regular 20pt line, the shock leader and then the fly? That sounds like a simple leader!!
Thanks tons for your patience with me.
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby Grandpa21 » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:16 am

BB,

What species are your targeting? From what I hear Corbina, which looks like the west coast's version of the Redfish, is what many of the guys are going for in the surf in S.D. Never caught one myself but hear they are tons of fun. When I was out there visiting my sister I found a good fly shop in Coronado and the guy set me up with some flies and good advice for fly in the surf. Can't recall what the store was called but I think he had and Orvis sign out front.

As far as leaders. Saltwater leaders in generally do not need to be as complicated as freshwater trout leaders. I generally stick to straight shot of 20 lb fluoro or mono, and depending on the species modify accordingly. But choosing a leader really depends on what species you are targeting.

p.s. I also read an article recently about people catching Bonefish in and around San Diego! But if you want a real thrill I would go target some offshore species. I hear the Mako fishing on fly is awesome out there too! When I head out there to visit friends I think that's going to be what I target ;)
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby beachlessbeachbum » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:02 pm

Well, I have been told that I'll find corbina, perch and shovelnose shark which looks more like a ray than a shark. One person at a sports shop told me I could get away with a 0x leader but he didn't look very certain about it, that's why I posted my question here.
Thanks to all of you guys for helping me with all of this. Just having a little trouble tying the leaders together, the blob knot is not quite working for me, practice I guess
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby Grandpa21 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:00 pm

BB,

Is there a reason you are tying using a blob knot? I hadn't heard of it till I just googled it and it seems a bit involved. I'm always suspect of knots that involve putting a hot flame near any part of the leader. When tying knots such as the PR knot I always use a not surface such as a heated coat hanger to melt the tag end so that the heat is concentrated at this single point and does not have a chance to compromise the rest of the leader. Have you tried a Classic blood knot or Surgeons Knot? Really when it comes down to knots tying something that you have confidence in and you can tie well without and extra tools are the best to know. But the less knots the less places your leader will likely fail ;0)

Good luck with the Corbina. Post a picture when and report when you catch one!
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby beachlessbeachbum » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:32 pm

Hey Grandpa21,
I googled shock leader and found that knot several times so I just figured it was a good one, another reason is because at first I found the #40 to be too thick to tie it to the 20pt but after practicing many times I will agree with you, the blood knot might be the best option. That's the on I use for my fresh water leaders and none of those have failed on me so far.
There is nothing I want more than start yapping about my saltwater catches, lol.
Thanks all again for your help, it is much appreciated.
Martin
Not so beachless anymore.
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby NY-2-SANO » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Hello All,
I'm new to the forum, but like "BBB" I also moved to So Cal and started fishing the surf. Look up "fliflicker.com". It's a great site and that board focuses on fly fishing the surf and the local So Cal bays. Also check out the local clubs, they are a wealth of info.
As far as equipment, for the size of fish you catch from the beach, you can go with a 3 wt (mainly surf perch, they run about a pound). The problem is definitely the size of the surf and the wind. I had a 10' 5 wt that I used when the surf was small and no wind (may it RIP after a tragic mishap where I left it on the roof of my truck after fishing :( ). My go to rod now a 9' 8wt with 250 grain shooting head. It can hanlde most conditions. I have also used a 10 wt when the surf is bigger, but in that case I am usually out surfing and not fishing. For line, you need something that will get the fly down to the feeding zone which is at the bottom. For leaders, don't waste you money on a tapered leader. I use 6# mono or fluoro. For flies, anything red usually works.
"BBB" where in So Cal did you move?

Ken
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Re: Fly rod and reel

Postby beachlessbeachbum » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:11 am

Hello Ken,
I moved from Arizona to Canoga Park in the valley. I am still trying to adjust to work and the new life so I have only been able to tie some SoCal flies I found at a website and I haven't even been able to buy my fishing license yet. I have tied like 6 saltwater leaders using 8' of 20pt and a shock leader of #40. I just can't wait to go there and actually wet the line. I am near Santa Monica and Malibu and I can't wait to wet my line. I only had fished for bass, panfish and carp back in AZ, I was never very interested in trout but caught a few during winter. I also love to tie flies and leaders. I guess it's the only thing that keeps me sane in this crazy world. lol.
I got the 10wt only because I got it at a very good price but it is off balance, the rod is a 10wt and the reel is for a 12wt but again, that was the only thing I could afford at the moment. Maybe later on I'll get an 8wt.

Tight lines.
Martin
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