fish abuse

Questions about Saltwater Fishing

fish abuse

Postby Efishant » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:14 pm

I watch lots of fishing shows and I am always appalled by the way guys handle fish. I just saw Larry and his wife fishing oil rigs off the coast of Louisiana. I watched his wife land a snapper and stick her thumb and forefinger in it's eye sockets. Like most shows they gaffed fish which they were going to keep. Like most shows ......fish were thrown in a cooler still alive......and bleeding. As a trout fisherman this can only be perceived as downright thuggery. When I occasionally decide to keep a fish I club it immediately. I never put my fingers in the gills of a fish. I handle all fish with the same respect...regardless of weather I intend to keep them or not. I am not sure what a fish feels but I try to honor the fish by causing as little trauma as possible. I use a boga grip on fish that have teeth. I would never gaff a fish. There's no reason for it.... other than it's easy to do for someone who has no respect for their quarry. :shock: Salt water guys have a lot to learn about handling fish with respect; http://www.deneki.com/2013/03/catch-and ... gle+Reader
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Re: fish abuse

Postby dahlberg » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:43 am

Hey E
I appreciate your post, but suggest you pay better attention. First off, you did not see me fishing with my wife. In fact, my wife has never even been to Louisiana.
You jumped to that conclusion based on????
Similarly, the snapper that Captain Moe held in the manner offensive to you was eaten for dinner. If you have a better way to hold that species of fish without harming ones self I'd like to hear it.
Your self righteous attitude offends me, but I defend your right to have it.
What did you use before the Boga was invented? What makes you think the Boga is less invasive than an old fashioned "jawbone" grip?

What is a jawbone grip? It's the way most of us who make a living fishing hold a large fish, and the way people who don't know much about the subject think the fish are being held by or in the gills!

You are quite obviously a trout guy. Different fish have different requirements and vary greatly in terms hardiness.


Thanks for the post, the snapper was delicious!!
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Re: fish abuse

Postby Watchhiller » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:31 am

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Re: fish abuse

Postby dahlberg » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:56 am

The fact of the matter is that the specific place where a boga ends up is one of the very weakest structures, and boga use has the possibility of breaking the joint at the center of the lower jaw, in addition to the head to spine connection!
I know for sure if I was a bass I would much rather be thumbed than boga-ed! I also know for sure that the number of fish have caught and released successfully versus the number that have died is of such proportion that I have no guilt at all about either catching, releasing or eating any fish I choose as long as my decision is within the law and I have a valid license.
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Re: fish abuse

Postby Efishant » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:14 am

You are defensive even about mistaking a nice lookin women for your wife. Really.....that's an issue? I had seen you fish with your wife.....got into the show part way through....so I thought it was your wife again! Anyway...it's totally irrelevant to the issue. I have fished around Sanibel...caught lots of snook...snapper and other species .....never used such a technique. I have caught hundreds of salmon with serious teeth.....always tail them or used a boga.....or simply nettd them. So, I'm no Larry Dahlberg but I have caught a lot of big fish. There are in fact more honorable ways to handle fish. I got pretty much the response I expected. It's too bad . Bass fisherman have really evolved over the last several years. The ethics of trout fisherman have really had an effect on them. Maya Angelou said , "When ya know better ya do better." She forgot that ya gotta wanna do better first!
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Re: fish abuse

Postby Efishant » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:34 am

Of coarse there is no reason not to thumb a bass......there's just no reason to use the boga then. So that point ....well...I just don't know. I have landed lots of salmon with a boga.... most of which are going to be eaten by a friend or client! The boga has been used on several Musky and Pike which were released. There is a proper technique. I do not let the fish hang from the boga . The fish is always supported with the other hand. There are other devices like the boga which work well too. But hey...if ya think gaffing a fish is ok ....you obviously are not preoccupied with the honor of your quarry or...... the small possibility that it may suffer. Call me what you will.....at least I'm trying to be better. http://s117.photobucket.com/user/Chukin ... 3.jpg.html

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o79/ ... nder-3.jpg
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Re: fish abuse

Postby detroitmuskie » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:03 pm

There are some close minded individuals and it shouldn't shock me anymore but somehow still does. A trout guy calling out well respected anglers, LA fish n game and Captains. How can one judge without all the correct information is beyond me! People don't know how dangerous Boga's can be for a fish! I can't stand seeing Muskie guys using one and too many broken jaws. There's a safe and effective way... Lip lock and support belly... Simple!!
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Re: fish abuse

Postby Dan Hanon » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:03 pm

Efishant,

You need to post on some anal-retentive German trout forum, not here. Join P.E.T.A. and point your self righteous finger at the commercial trawlers and long lines that slowly kill trillions of fish each year. Those fish certainly have a slow, drowning death; can't be too humane.

As for your attack on Larry and the captain, it was ridiculous and unwarrented.

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Re: fish abuse

Postby dahlberg » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:19 am

Efishant wrote:
> You are defensive even about mistaking a nice lookin women for your wife.
> Really.....that's an issue? I had seen you fish with your wife.....got
> into the show part way through....so I thought it was your wife again!
> Anyway...it's totally irrelevant to the issue. I have fished around
> Sanibel...caught lots of snook...snapper and other species .....never used
> such a technique. I have caught hundreds of salmon with serious
> teeth.....always tail them or used a boga.....or simply nettd them. So,
> I'm no Larry Dahlberg but I have caught a lot of big fish. There are in
> fact more honorable ways to handle fish. I got pretty much the response I
> expected. It's too bad . Bass fisherman have really evolved over the last
> several years. The ethics of trout fisherman have really had an effect on
> them. Maya Angelou said , "When ya know better ya do better."
> She forgot that ya wanna do better first!

As suspected, you missed my point but took the bait..My point is about you not paying close attention.
If you did you would have thought beyond your first post and not posted it in the first place!
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Re: fish abuse

Postby Efishant » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:17 am

Wish I was a guy that thought there was nothing else to be learned! Hey , your in good company.....every one else I see on salt water shows does the same thing!
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Re: fish abuse

Postby Efishant » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:47 pm

Oh yeah...it occurred to me that you have voiced some conservation concerns on your show. In Florida you can't even lift a Tarpon out of the water anymore. That's gotta kill the trophy whores. A lot of guys now will simply cut the leader after they have "jumped" the fish a few times. That's a real advancement in the sport. Some guys do the same thing with Bill Fish. There are some high minded guys out there! There's nothing worse than dragging a majestic beast across the gunnels of your boat. Having your lateral line raked across the edge of the boat must be the fish equivalent of a good kick in the balls! No wonder fish mortality is believed to be so high. Well some guys evolve and embrace anything that will help the fishery. They are not entirely altruistic they just wanna make sure there are always gonna be fish to be caught. If we weren't anglers we wouldn't give a darn about fish or conservation...but it's a start! Now when ya care about something for which there is no personal benefit...then you start to resemble a real human. Apparently many of us will never get there!

So, sorry to tell ya...but ya can't gaff a Tarpon in Florida anymore. Ya better stay south of the border! Ha!
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Re: fish abuse

Postby dahlberg » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:14 pm

Does anyone know what this guy is talking about? Trophy whores?
The purpose of this forum is to provide helpful information. Let's keep it that way.
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Re: fish abuse

Postby detroitmuskie » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:24 pm

No, I don't Larry... Absolutely unreal! By the way... I just got back from a 3 day Tarpon trip in Florida and there was no talk among guides or practice of taking Tarpon out of water. Stop the attacks! Trophy whores??? Seriously!! Go find a new sport...
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Re: fish abuse

Postby Dan Hanon » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:34 pm

That guy just likes attention, even if he has to be hostile or inflammatory to get it. People like that are called "attention whores".
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Re: fish abuse

Postby Watchhiller » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:01 am

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Re: fish abuse

Postby Watchhiller » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:10 am

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Re: fish abuse

Postby Watchhiller » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:33 am

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Re: fish abuse

Postby Efishant » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:42 am

Of coarse ya don't know what I'm talking about! A hundred years ago people were killing a couple hundred trout a day on their vacations. Then somebody dared to assert a new sensitivity. Those who thought fish grew on trees had no intention of turning over a new leaf. They resented any imposition on their ignorance. It took a long time but today most thoughtlessness has been thwarted by Trout Unlimited and the advent of "catch and release." It all happened because some assholes dared to think there was a better way! And now...as I stated ....even Tarpon in Florida are treated .......well, kinda like trout! I'll bet in years to come there will be even more improvements in the way we treat our quarry....gaffing will be a thing of the past.....but it won't be because of people who refuse to think about what they are doing!

Regards; Chuck Atkins, Chicago
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Re: fish abuse

Postby dahlberg » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:00 am

Chuck,
Not sure which bedbug is biting you, but honestly if you are going to throw stones I think you need to take more specific aim.

I've been involved with the "catch and release" thing since it's inception. I almost lost my guiding job when I was teenager back in the sixties because I wouldn't let my clients kill smallmouth for lunch.
When at InFish we advanced the concept to change from catch and release to the non-polar, and more logical title of "Selective Harvest".
You might say I was one of "assholes dared to think there was a better way! " So I ask, why are you trying to pick a fight and exactly what is this fight about?"

All the guides I know and fish with are extremely conscientious about both the environment and the fish they target.
Otherwise, I would not fish with them.

Please be more specific in documenting the issues you are ranting about. In my experience, even back 50 plus years ago, a very small percentage of fisherman were guilty of a very large percentage of damage, and that generation has almost disappeared.

This all started over Moe poking a snapper in the eye. If you have a few moments, and a snapper, perhaps you could do a video clip as to how you would accomplish the same task as moe attempted without getting either cut, poked or bitten.

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Re: fish abuse

Postby Watchhiller » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:24 am

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Re: fish abuse

Postby Watchhiller » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:08 pm

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Re: fish abuse

Postby Dan Hanon » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:29 pm

Thanks for the link Watchhiller. This large scale commercial fishing is decimating the ocean's fisheries, and these are the real threat to the fish, not Moe. Chuck is scolding Moe for grabbing a snapper by the eyes, a fish she was keeping to eat. I suppose she should have lifed it from the water on a fish sling then Tazer it on the deck. Then he complains about gaffing fish, that are also going to be eaten. Ever watch "Wicked Tuna" on Nat Geo? I've seen a few gaffed tuna on that show, but again, they are caught for foot. I suppose I better tazor my bluegill before I scale them instead of clubbing them on the head with a rock, as I usually do. Or is there legal injection for fish? hmmmmmm....
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Re: fish abuse

Postby Watchhiller » Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:51 pm

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Re: fish abuse

Postby Dan Hanon » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:31 pm

Watchhiller,

If Chuck were so insightful, his first post would have been an informative discussion about the large scale human and environmental threats to the world's oceans. Instead, he attacked Larry, a world class angler who has done more to promote selective harvest and "catch & release" than he ever will.

BTW, good video on the mantas, very sad. My wife is going scuba diving with them off Socorro Island, Mexico this winter. She has done several great white shark dives as well. The largest shark she saw was a female estimated at 25 feet! It's generally printed that their maximum size is 21 ft., but this one is larger. We have photos of her dwarfing the steel dive cage! Unfortunately, sharks have been decimated too.
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Re: fish abuse

Postby Watchhiller » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:43 pm

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