I'm thinking of getting into FlyFishing( have a few question

[mig rod]

In your opinions
If properly learned and practiced, is this form of fishing an advantage or disadvantage. I do know that most fish respond better to light lures such as flies. And that flies and streamers can be presented in a more natural way.I am interested in getting into this fishing field and just wanted to know when you use your Flyfishing gear do you feel you'll catch alot less than if using spinning or baitcasing gear, or are the odds the same??
(Ofcourse taking into consideration that you know how to flyfish)

[jbird]

mig rod

Thats a really hard question to answer. There are times when one will work better than the other. For example, if your fishing a worm during a massive stonefly hatch where trout are gorging on the surface, I'd put my money on a fly...you get the picture... Also, some agressive species that like a fast moving prey may be more apt to take a fast stripped streamer fly (but a well presented lure can be deadly too)

I prefer to flyfish because its more fun for me, not because its more effective. Its really neat to tie your own flies and see them produce. You enter into a whole new world of equipment (arguably more complex) If you log the hours and get good at it, you will catch fish, lots of fish. And it goes way beyond trout. Largemouth bass on poppers are a hoot. Roosterfish off the beach in baja or coho from shore on vancouver island will work you into a frenzy. Its a great, great sport!!

Two words of caution...Its hopelessly addicting, jeapordizing stable finances and relationships, and secondly, flyfisherman tend to put themselves on a pedastal of excellence. Like theyve arrived at some sportsmans nirvana. Its really too bad, theres not much humility in the sport. They consider themselves purists. Dont let these guys get you down.
Its great fun...go for it!

Jay

[dahlberg]

I break the world of fish into two basic categories: fish that eat bugs and fish that eat each other.
When imitating bugs, it's tough to beat a flyrod, especially if the bugs are on the surface, AND, the angler knows how to execute a drag free drift.

On the other hand, a slip bobber rig and spinning outfit rigged with 4# test is in many cases far easier and effective than trying dredge an insect imitating fly in deep water.

Regarding streamers,and minnow imitations, anyone who thinks they can outfish a spinning rig with a flyrod is deluding themselves.

The other situation where a fly is more effective (providing the angler can cast well) is in super skinny water where a "plop" frightens fish, as in many cases while fishing bonefish.

The amount of practice required to become effective with a fly rod versus effective with spinning, or baitcasting gear, is most likely why more people don't fly fish.

Personally, I enjoy the process of casting a fly more than I do other equipment, but in reality it's kind of like fishing with one hand tied behind your back when compared with all the other options available.

My suggestion is to become proficient as time allows with all kinds of tackle. Borrowing and transposing from one discipline to the next is often quite effective.

best,
L

[mig rod]

Hey Jbird
I can see myself getting into this Flyfishing thing.
I do realize though it's going to take time and patience
before I can ever consider myself a fly fishermen. It
will be a fun journey though, thanks for the encouragement.


Hey L. Dalhberg

I too feel it is important to learn all the different
aspects of fishing with all the different gears and techniques.
I have found myself in situations in shallow, clear ,and still water
where I wished I knew how to Flyfish. I guess I will just
purchase the best Fly Rod combo I can afford and start
the long process of practicing. Even though like you said
I might be at a disadvantage, the challenge will make it
worth while when I do learn.It definitely sounds like
fun.
Take care.

[dahlberg]

HI mig
Don't be deluded into thinking you need to spend a ton of money. The fly outfit I use every day at home (rod, reel and line) retails for around $150. If you really focus on what you're doing and have good instruction learning to fly cast doesn't take all that much time. Biggest thing, just like golf, is to get a clear idea of what you're trying to do before you develop hard to break habits.
I've taught people to cast 70 feet with a nice tight controlled loop in less than an hour. I start with a child's pull toy and a bath towel to teach timing and stroke. I did a panfish video a few years back for Scientific Anglers that illustrates the method if you would like more details.
Good luck, and I commend you for making the effort to expand your horizons!
best,
L

[mig rod]

Hey L. Dalhberg

Thanks for the great info. I'll try to search
for that video and give it a go. Wow, only
150 bucks for a good combo. I thought it
would've run me twice that.

Thanks again

[jbird]

Mr Mig Rod

Be very careful about skimping on a flyrod package. It has definitly become more affordable to get started than it used to. There are a lot of excellent flyrods out there today that wont break the bank. However, with that said, There is some real crap out there too.
I highly recommend you find a local fly shop and test fly rods befor you buy. Obviously youll need to know a little about casting before this would be beneficial. If you know anyone at all that flyfishes and would be willing to take you out would be a huge advatage. Or sign up for a class would be even better.
The reason I say this is, if you just impulsively buy a combo for $150, you dont know what your getting. A crappy flyrod will frustrate you to the point of not following through on this endeavor. Believe me, I consider myself an excellent caster and have thrown some rods that made me feel like Ive never cast before...just total garbage.

****Matching a rod with the correct line is of galactic importance***

Theres no question you can get an outfit that will work great for $150, but you really need to know what your buying. Heck, you could spend $1000 on a combo and not like it.

The other huge consideration is warranty. There are some great price point rods out there with awesome lifetime warranties. TFO rods are probably the front runners in this realm. Very affordable rods (entry level through expert) excellent casting rods (comparable with the most expensive available)and lifetime warranty service if you break the rod. I personally own 5 TFO rods and love them all.

Heres a pretty typical, realistic entry level layout...this is for trout/bass/panfish and similar fishes.

*6 weight flyrod-----------------------------------------------------$100-$150

*Fly reel to match rod with adequate drag system for intended quarry------------------------------------------------------------------------------$50-$100

* [u]QUALITY[/u] 6 weight, weight forward, floating flyline----$60

*Dacron backing--------------------------------------------------------$10

*Tapered leaders-------------------------------------------------------$10

*Tippet-------------------------------------------------------------------$5

* flybox w/assortment of flies ----------------------------------------$30

*Breathable Waders-------------------------------------------------$75-$100

*Wading boots--------------------------------------------------------$50

Total ----------------------------------------------------------------$390-$515

These are just ball park numbers, but theres a little more to it than people think of at the onset. Theres a few other accessories that you may or may not already own... polarized glasses, knot tools, clippers, fly floatant...Most serious flyfishermen end up tying their own flies. It can be a chunk of change at first but you save mountains of money over the years...and it is a really cool aspect of the sport.

I have more respect for Larry than I could begin to describe. He's the greatest fisherman on earth that I know of. And humble to boot. And in no way am I saying you cant get a great setup for $150. But youve got to have good knowledge of the equipment before you know whether your getting a good deal or a chinese junk.

I hope this post isnt out of line??

Jay

[dahlberg]

hey Jbird,
I loved your post! You're only out of line when you don't have any line left.
I'm personally using two different rods that are comparitively cheaper than dirt. Both are beginner SCi Angler combos you can buy at walmart.
They could be improved with another guide or two, but they cast great. As a matter of fact, IMO, as someone that can cast 90 feet of line using just my hand and no rod at all I think their basic design, i.e. action are WAY better than many rods that cost 5X as much money.
My question to you is this, how can a beginner possibly judge a fly rod?
The ones I consider poor in action have actually been designed to help minimize the problems caused by flaws in stroke and I can cast them, but find them horrible for super high line speed casts, shooting a bug under a cut bank or overhanging tree because they unload too quickly and often have what I can a "hinge" in the upper third.
Also, IMO, a drag system in a fresh water reel is absurd. All I want is enough drag so the reel doesn't overspin when I strip line off. Also the weight of the reel is important in that it should NOT BE TOO LIGHT TO COUNTERBALANCE THE WEIGHT OF THE ROD UNDER LOAD. i.E. too light is way worse than too heavy when it comes to a reel. Try casting a 10 weight with no reel on it. It will kill you quick.
Also purchasing tippet spools from a flyshop is far more expensive than simply buying a spool of mono of the right dia.
You're totally right on the button regarding matching line and rod, and that's where some of what you refer to as Chinese junk can really miss the mark.
If you're a trout guy you need way more stuff than if you're fishing warm water species.
If you already own a boat or are fishing smallies, largemouth and panfish there's no need for waders. A pair of old tennies did me fine for most of my 20 odd years of guiding smallmouth fly people.
In my early twenties I was invited to a $10,000 per week atlantic salmon camp by a former client.
I listened intently to all the B.S., tried to absorb an unbelievably confusing chart intended as a guide for which fly for which day and weather and water and time of year and felt totally overwhelmed. My vision was 20/10 then and I had a hard time telling many of them apart.
I fished with the gilly for 2 days, stood where they said, used what they said etc and caught 2 fish each day while most of the other guests caught one or none.
I then went out on my own, watched the critters for a while from a cliff and began applying the simple things I'd learned on my own as a kid fishig smallmouth.
At the end of the week the camp total was 90 odd fish of which I'd caught eighty some. I caught them on a fly I tied using the fuzz from the couch dubbed on to a wiggle nymph fuselage I made from a couple of salmon hooks and a strip of copper wire I swiped from an old lamp cord.
Needless to say it really rattled the experts.
The point is, if you learn to cast well and control the line in the water it doesn't neccessarily involve a whole lot of money or voodoo.
Sorry to get riled up, and I very much appreciate your post and cost break down, but the contrived mysticism that pervades the fly industry is disgusting to me and I think is the one most important single factor that turns off would be fly fishers.
Again, thanks for your post!
best,
L

[jbird]

Hey larry

Thanks for the kind words and your always respected point of view. I cant disagree with a single thing you said. Youre right, its tough to know black from white if youve never cast a rod before. Thats why I was hoping mig rod knew someone who could help him "hands on" or could sign up for a class/lesson before he spent the money.

I couldnt agee more about a drag not being necessary for a fly reel in such application. Heck, I caught my first 500+ steelhead on a pfleuger medalist. The thing I've learned tho, when buying gear is, look down the road at what you might use the set up for. If you found yourself fishing smallmouth from shore and suddenly a 20# carp popped in, I would be much more comfortable with a decent reel. Also, I've caught silver salmon off the beach with a 6wt rod, I can tell you I was very thankfull to have a good drag and a decent fill of backing.

Absolutely love the atlantic salmon story. Youre right about there being too much BS and non existant technicality in the sport. The first thing I tell people that are getting into this sport is to forget about 90% of the crap you read in the magazines or whatever. Just go out and find your own nitch. There arent that many folks who have it in their DNA to think like a fish (like you do) and solve problems on site and turn a 1 fish a day fishing trip into an 85 fish week with fuzz from the couch
Some people never quite wrap their mind around it no matter how good they get at using their equipment. I've always believed the single most important tool you can take fishing is confidence in yourself and your ability to solve puzzles and catch fish.

Larry if you ever find yourself traveling through souther Oregon, I would drop anything to meet up with you.

Best regards!!

Jay