Small boat advice

[Dave Jahnsen]

Hey Larry,
I'm seeking your input for some options on buying a shallow water/river/stream fishing boat. LIGHTWEIGHT is paramount; yet preferably something stable..................ruling out any canoes I am aware of in markets in the United States. The obvious is the flat bottom JON..............12-14 foot up to 250 pounds. This boat would be used namely for musky fishing in a terrritory in which boat landings are non-existant and navigation up and downstream during low water involves either push poling or walking thru due to shallow flats and small rapids. Float trips are not an option.................this is in and out of the same launch or being capable of living in the bush for a week to hit the next evenly remotely near access (imagine depictions from the movie DELIVERANCE). In past angling adventures, only determenation, pesistance and may I confess: silent prayer to the LORD has granted access in or out, alongwith the use of heavy duty rope, winching, pvc/drain tile laid down for roller/lever action under the keel and aggressive four wheel drive...............

Given your travels and adventures abroad, any thoughts as to a suitable craft that offers stability, durablility and capability to launch over, at best ,
"carry or portage only" boat ramps? Any one make as far as flat bottom JONs in your opinion that holds up better than others?

Along the same lines, any input as far as years, makes or models of short shaft outboards that you have found run well in all seasons, tilt into shallow draft mode and pack fairly light on and off the transom.

Thanks to Larry or anyone else whom can offer up any advice,

Dave Jahnsen

[dahlberg]

Hi Dave,
Very, very difficult question. sounds like you need a Buck Rogers style jet-pack and a float tube.
The 5 layer sandwiched material Old Town used in canoes is the best material I've seen for the purpose you describe, but you'd need it shaped more like a jon boat, but with more "rake" in the keel to make it easier to pole. To my knowlege nothing like it exists.
The closest thing I ever found was an extra wide square stern with about the same dimensions as a grumman sport boat made of the material I mentioned. Light, strong, flexible and slippery as soap on the rocks.

Rubber rafts, in my experience, are awful to fish from, and can be rather ungainly.

Sounds like you're paying your dues, and the good part is you don't have to worry about much company!
best,
L

[Questor]

I used to have a 13 foot Old Town Discovery Sport, which is a type of wide square sterned canoe with oarlocks. I used an electric trolling motor on it, with the battery wired extra long so I could put the battery up front. This worked great, except that it was too heavy to portage. It did allow me to get back into some places I can't even get to with my 14' aluminum boat.

One of the great things about the Old Town was that I could stand up in it to fish.

I tried float tubes an didn't like them because I got blown around too much. I think they're probably OK for places where there isn't much wind.

Once I got to fish from an inflatable boat called a sea hawk. It had removable floorboards and it was so nice I'm thinking of buying one. I think Cabelas sells them now.

Fishing kayaks may be an option, but I haven't fished from one. They're really popular fishing boats with some inshore saltwater fishermen.

[Bionic]

Try this site http://www.gheenoe.net/ I have a 13 and love it. I have had
it for about 14 years. It was my first boat when I move to Florida.
I now have a 22 foot fishing dream and still wind up using the gheenoe
as often as the big boat. If you want to try kayaks Wilderness Kayaks
are some of the best.

Scott

[Questor]

The 13' Gheenoe is very similar to the Old Town I had. The Old Town was narrower toward the stern and was lighter. In the web page beware of the picture showing the boat on the top of an SUV. That probably required two careful people to set up. When I had the Old Town I almost always used it alone and I owned cars that I didn't mind scratching up a bit. That's a good thing, because I scratched and dented the cars when putting the boat on the car roof solo. Not a lot, but enough to be distressing if it were to happen to the car I have now. Those were also conventional cars, not SUVs. I can't imagine putting that boat on my SUV solo.

[Dave Jahnsen]

Larry hit it right on the head!
What I desire is something that does'nt exist; a 42 inch wide lightweight (with oar locks) style "old town". I own a 12 foot square stern canoe by Cranberry Creek outfitters (which is a copy-cat of the old town canoe) On a mid- April ice out on the Wisconsin River I nearly drowned when I leaned back over the transom and attempted to tie a rope up to a log in the river in which I had just caught a few walleyes.............I was under water w/ waders on, and the very breath taken away (along with all my tackle and gear) in the very blink of an eye! Questor: I run foam water pipe insulation down the gunnels of mine to not only hunt/fish in stealth but also in aid of car-top loading. As far as the inflatables I have absulutely no input..............I am aware that rescue crews and military units utilize them but I'm a little leary I guess of needle sharp treble hooks in at any time potential contact!
I have seen guys (bow fishing for carp) with modified booms/outriggers made from 4-6 inch capped end or foam sealed pvc on their sqaure stern canoes; very similar to "Tribal" looking sea crafts........ added stability, but for me..........too much dinging around when it would come to landing large fish or doing figure eights!
No doubt, guys; if you can remain sitting for any amount of time that kayaks, canoes, and portagers are very stable and worthy..................my dilema is not only the lightweight aspects, but also mobility. Perhaps a downfall, but I'm ingrained to stand and prance around from bow to stern, navigating, casting, sight fishing and landing my fish and thats whether I fish bass, gills, skies, walleyes, trout or redhorse.

Previously, I've owned and fished standard JON boats and small v's. If I could somehow magically tweak my LUND S-14 into a semi-V flat bottom and with hocus poscus make the aluminum into the composite of a fiber or something lighter like the Old Town canoe or Shell Lake/Lund fiberglass portagers I think I'd find my match.

I've been told by more than one ol' blister that Grumman does make the lightest comparable small V's and JON's............and with that said I think I am leaning that way. I'll spend a little more, but in the long run I'm sure to be more content. Brand new, a plain Jane 14 foot flat bottom Grumman Otiscoe (weighing about 130#s will run me around $1300-1400)

Any wisdom as per a good outboard to team it up with??

Dave Jahnsen

[Questor]

Dave:

I don't recommend a 12 foot Jon boat. I've seen too many of them swamped in even a slight chop on a small lake. I really don't trust their seaworthiness at all on lakes. 14 footers seem to be a quantum leap improvement, but I don't know for sure how they work on lakes.

One thing you might consider is a cheap kayak. I saw one advertised for about $250 and it weight under 40 pounds. That got my attention. I can't remember the company that advertised it but it's been running in Florida Sportsman magazine for a few months, at least.

Here's the link to the inflatable I mentioned:
http://www.seaeagle.com/MotormountBoats.aspx
Hooks are not really an issue with quality inflatables. The materials used on the outside is difficult to puncture. In the event of a puncture, there are multiple air cells to prevent sinking.


With boats, there's always an option. It's just a matter of finding the one that you want.

[Bionic]

The 13' Gheenoe is very similar to the Old Town I had. The Old Town was narrower toward the stern and was lighter. In the web page beware of the picture showing the boat on the top of an SUV. That probably required two careful people to set up. When I had the Old Town I almost always used it alone and I owned cars that I didn't mind scratching up a bit. That's a good thing, because I scratched and dented the cars when putting the boat on the car roof solo. Not a lot, but enough to be distressing if it were to happen to the car I have now. Those were also conventional cars, not SUVs. I can't imagine putting that boat on my SUV solo.

Questor I have loaded it by myself on many lonely outing. I haven't had any problem.
I also use it to fish in saltwater and it has handle some pretty choppy water.
Two adults can fish out og it and stand up without to much problem.
I'd give one a look if you have never been near one.

Scott

[Ralph]

I just got (for Christmas) a Hobie Outback Fish sit-on-top kayak. I've used it once already and it felt pretty stable on calm river water (Patapsco River). My hands were free to use for fishing because this kayak has a pedal drive system. I was able to get into very shallow water with it.

I was a little nervous on it, as it was my first time in a kayak, and I had been dunked before while in a canoe. I intend to take it on the Chesapeake Bay, where the water is significantly rougher than on the Patapsco. Because I am worried about stability because of rough water or because I might make a sudden move (or hopefully because I want to boat nice-sized fish), I just bought an outrigger kit (made by Hobie) for it. I will supposedly be able to stand up in the kayak with the outriggers, though I don't think I will try that.

The whole thing weighs about 70 pounds and comes with wheels you put on the bottom to roll the thing to the shore, bank, etc. There are 3 hatches you can use, though only one is really accessible while you are sitting in it. When you roll the kayak to the water, you take the wheels off and put them in the front hatch and you are ready to go. The hardest part about the whole setup for me is putting the kayak on the roof rack and getting it back down without scratching the roof of the car (Toyota Rav4). Thule makes a "lift assist" to help people with this problem, but I had already bought a Yakima rack.

Hope this helps.

Ralph