Fly fishing in matted grasses

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Fly fishing in matted grasses

Postby Caja » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:42 am

Made some weedless frog flies 2" and 5" for matted grasses. Had good success using snag proof frogs and 65lb power pro and still lose a fish on occasion in mats. Has anyone tried fly fishing with hollow core braided leaders while fishing bass fishing matted vegetation. Tfo 10weight 8' Rod and Sage 9-11 weight largemouth Rod is tackle going to try and land 5-10lb largermouths.
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Re: Fly fishing in matted grasses

Postby aka anglinarcher » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:13 pm

I like your rod choices for this, but once they get below the mats you may still need to straight line them out or go in the mats after them. I still won't break a flippen stick by using the rod alone to get them out of the slop. When I have done this I use a 9' 10 weight custom rod I had made years ago or a 12' 11 weight switch rod. I know that shorter rods give you more leverage but the longer rods give me more line speed for tossing the big heavy rats/frogs I was using into that salad, plus it is easier for me to use longer leaders.

As for the hollow core, not personally, but I don't see why it won't catch fish. Bass are not leader shy, especially in the matts.

Now, I have used straight 65 # PowerPro attached directly to the fly and fly line and it worked pretty well. Hardest part was getting that hook buried before they get below the mats so you can yank them out. LOL

PS, I still loose fish when I do this with my 65 # and heaver on a flippen stick.

Oh ya, the longer leader. I want the thin sharp superline to help cut the salad as I pull the fish back. I DO NOT want fly line under that stuff if I can help it.
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Re: Fly fishing in matted grasses

Postby dahlberg » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:12 pm

Most fly lines in the upper weights have a core of 30 lb. Obvioulsy not much sense in going heavier than the core strength of your fly line with the leader! A short piece of thirty lb hard mono would be my call, or maybe no leader at all! I wrote an article years ago about fly fishing heavy cover with large hard to cast flies. It was entitled " flop the slop". essentially you wind up hooking the fish, then going in and digging him out of what ever he was living in!
It works for sure, but is a poor substitute for 65 lb braid and a stout conventional rod.
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Re: Fly fishing in matted grasses

Postby Caja » Wed May 03, 2017 5:48 pm

I saw this frog/bird design and made a few to try. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzTI6 ... VZxWnVlQ3c
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzTI6 ... TBqV3ZTQVk
Mostly fishing from drift boat and fishing kayaks so normally hook fish with frogs and they pull me too them most of the time. Got this one on buzzing frog in sparse matts https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzTI6 ... VR3OTJJQ1k
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Re: Fly fishing in matted grasses

Postby aka anglinarcher » Thu May 04, 2017 2:48 pm

Larry, I had forgotten all about the core strength of fly lines. I remember about 10 or so years ago that SA came out with a stronger core and I was going to get that line, but I don't seem to see that it came to market. Kind of makes the 65 pound Power Pro I use overkill. :oops:

For me, I still like the long leader concept because I can get in to within 15 feet or so, grab the leader, then straight line them out. (Gloved hand for sure - ROFLOL) I love braid because it cuts the weeds often. Well, most of the time, some times it just means you need to go all the way to the fish, just like you talked about.

I'd say, let's test the different methods, but in reality, I only use the fly rod for this type of fishing when I want to do something different. I think you know the fun of not catching the fish they best way, but YOUR WAY once in a while. Most of the time if they are in that kind of slop I want a heavier frog/rat then a fly rod offering. Still, once in a while, you just have to have fun.
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Re: Fly fishing in matted grasses

Postby Caja » Tue May 09, 2017 11:51 am

Would hollow core braid on main fly line would/could improve strength and cut grasses also? It seems to cast good in this entertaining video. https://youtu.be/QoVeDS9tLW0. Do Muskie fly anglers uses this also? Just getting into Muskie fly/conventional tactics, just learning. In moderate to heavy current around heavy cover could help stop fish in there tracks. Is there a link to flop the slop article, tried google no luck.
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Re: Fly fishing in matted grasses

Postby aka anglinarcher » Tue May 09, 2017 3:51 pm

As always, Larry is the final expert on this, so I will offer only my experience.

I can't respond directly to Muskie fishing use of hollow core, but remember that Larry is right about the fly line only having 30 # strength, so the strength is limited to the length of the Hollow Core only. Stopping any fish in its tracks requires the entire line to be heavy, not just the leader. You can have a 200 pound leader, but if the line is only 8 pound test, you won't stop much. Consider your leader limited to 30 pound strength, the strength of the fly line core, and any other reason is separate.

Hollow core is larger in diameter them the solid core for the same poundage. I use it to make some leaded leaders like Larry shows on a few TV shows, so I have several poundages in storage. Because it is larger per diameter, and more expensive, I see no real advantage for strength for this example. You can get solid braid in heavy weights much cheaper.

As for cutting grass, smaller is "sharper". I know a lot of people still prefer 80 pound mono for flipping because it does not cut into rotten logs, etc., due it's large diameter; larger diameter, less sharp. I have one rig set up with 80 floro for that reason. But, for slop, not my favorite for sure.

Yes, hollow core cast like a dream as a leader. Cortland came out with a fly leader (Orvis followed, as did others) that was hollow core braided nylon just for fly fishing. I still have some of them and they turn over a pretty line. If I am tossing super long leaders on spring creeks for trout, well I can toss a 20 foot leader with these. They also do a great job for some of my nymphing as well, but, a straight chunk of heavy mono does an equally great job of handling frogs, etc. For Tiger Muskies and Pike I often use a 30 # chunk of mono with a 16 inch chunk of 100 # floro instead of wire. I usually have to change the 100 # out often when I catch a fish but I don't have Larry's monster pike and Muskie to fish for so going heavier is a waist. LOL

I can see using a heavy hollow core leader with a floro shock tippet, but, it would float all the time and that is not my game. Not for Muskie or my Pike for sure.

As I said before, I do use the 65 # power pro braid in a long leader in the slop at times, when I am having fun only, but I have to go after the fish until I get the leader in hand. I think Larry would say that this is extremely inefficient. :oops: But, I never said inefficient could not be fun. :P :idea:
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Re: Fly fishing in matted grasses

Postby dahlberg » Wed May 10, 2017 6:34 am

Yup on the digging them out of the salad! My experience is that no matter how soon or how hard you pull there is no way to yank even a 4 pounder out of heavy overhead cover with a flyrod! They slurp and are already headed home by the time things get tight, leaving no option but to go in and dig them out! I don't think it's a matter of line strength as much as it is not having enough leverage and/or hold out with the flyrod to effectively lift the fish and get its' head going in the right direction. Yes, it is fun! Especially if you have someone along who can operate a push pole instead of grinding things all to heck with a trolling motor!
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