Deerhair substitute

[anglermanagement]

Hey Larry I took a fly tying course that you taught some years back in Massachusetts and I have been experimenting with some of the concepts you presented and the way I look at flies has changed dramatically, so first off I want to say thank you for passing your wisdom on.
One thing I have been stumped on that you mentioned is finding a deerhair substitute for weighted flies. I remember you saying that adding weight to a deerhair fly is practically useless because it just adds additional weight that the angler have to cast. This concept makes sense to me considering deerhair is buoyant and the shape of the head should dictate whether the fly sinks on the retrieve or not.
So my issues is that I need a fly that will sink before I begin retrieving and all the materials I have tried to substitute for deerhair seems to be buoyant or doesn't push an adequate amount of water.
I understand I could use a sinking line with a deerhair head fly with no weight to solve this problem but personally I don't enjoy casting sinking lines all day. So I guess my question after weeding through all this Bull $#@& is- Is there a material that will keep its rigidity and push water like deerhair but also sink on its own.

[creekychub]

Try building/stacking than trimming a head with "EP" fibers. The fibers are stiff enough to keep a nice head shape and move water, but are comparatively light and shed water when casing (like lots of other synthetic fibers). Flash blend, slinky fibers, or kinky fibers can also be used. Here is the tutorial I used to learn about this technique... http://www.flyfisherman.com/2011/06/28/ ... z2GlOzzqYF

[aka anglinarcher]

creekychub, I have been setting on the sidelines on this one, expecting other options to be offered to you. First, I love EP fibers, and several similar. I wish they were available 45 years ago when I started tying files. LOL

Still, there are a lot of other options to consider as well, but it depends on what your goals are. So, let's try and discuss what we call buoyancy.

First, in laymen's terms, buoyancy might be defined as the pressure water exerts on a material equal to the volume of water it displaces. So, if we want to displace water, something deer hair is great at, then we are going to have a buoyant effect. To overcome this buoyancy, you have two options: you can either add weight or you can use a diving plane.

Now, adding weight is not always adding lead. For example, if you weigh the same size piece (volume) of deer hair verses bear hair, the bear hair is more dense, weighs more. Because it weights more per the same volume, it is effectively LESS buoyant. In reality, it might be closer to call it neutral buoyant, but it is an natural option to deer that "pushes water" due to bulk but does not require as much weight to sink it. A lot of synthetic fibers are neutral or only slightly more buoyant. Contacting a reputable local fly shop or catalogue source can help locate the denser fibers.

Second, there is a secondary effect one could call induced buoyancy. To explain this, if you have something that soaks up water, you are adding density to the fly, therefore reducing required weight to sink the fly. This type of "negative buoyancy" adds weight to the fly when casting, and this is what Larry was talking about I suspect. Wool yarn is a common method of making muddler heads and the such during the 80's because it not only soaked up water but was denser then flared and clipped deer hair. On the opposite side of this is hydrophobic induced buoyancy. This would be a case where the fibers repel water, either due to oils or the chemical nature of the material. Because of this, you tend to get a very thin layer of air trapped on the fiber and this adds effective buoyancy. As mentioned before, bear hair is more dense, but it is often higher in oils, so we loose some of the advantages. You can however clean the bear hair in a good detergent and remove the oils. It is a lot like removing dry fly floatant.

Third, air entrapment adds to buoyancy. Most dry flies seem to trap some air when they are dry, but loose the air as soon as the surface tension is lost once the fly gets dunked a few times. Again, refer to the muddler. Dunk a fresh dry muddler in water and you will see the air bubbles trapped.

Now, if you want a fly that requires less weight, you can deal with the second and third causes by using materials that are not hydrophobic, do not have oils, do not trap air. There are materials, like xink, that "make water wetter" and eliminate the air bubbles and hydrophobic properties, at least temporary. Some people don't like to use them, but they are available.

If you can tolerate some added weight, then you can add more dense materials, like bear hair, and clean it with a good dish detergent like Dawn, and then treat it with xink, and you will get as good as I can give you.

With all of the new materials that have come out there in the last 15 years, my best suggestion is to determine what you actual goals are, then contact that fly shop and have a long talk with them.

[dahlberg]

Hi guys,
I've tried for many years to find a substitute. So far no luck. Instead of continuing in that direction I'm messing w/ super light flexible foam and molding the shapes.
will be posting some videos on makelure soon.
best,
L